Could really use some help regarding legal letter to avoid DF

by Comatose 42 Replies latest jw friends

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  Band on the Run

  People don't want to listen. A religion can choose its membership. When I join clubs, I expect membership standards. We have associational rights. You have no right to be a certain religion. Pour money into some junk lawyer. The WT will win in the end. You voluntarily chose to be a Witness. I can see the WT point of view. There are consequences in life.

  Rob a bank. There are consequences.

  Why would anyone want to remain a Witness? Fade. I don't know who Dr. Bob is. People say there are cases. It makes no sense to me in light of the First Amendment. Judges are not going to order a religion to do anything in terms of membership. Blood would pour in the streets. People who make assertions concerning these wonder letters should let us all know the name of the cases and a reporter citation.
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  Comatose

  Band I like you, but you are wrong on one thing. Being born and brainwashed by your elder dad and crazy mom from 0 to teenage baptism is not "voluntarily choosing" to be a JW. Like I said, I doubt this works, but it was worth it to try. I will let you know either way. I do know it has worked. Why? Because it's not worth the energy of being sued. So they hold the matter in abeyance and forget about you. We will see. My situation is unique and not as likely to succeed. I'll explain why in a bit.
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  Nathan Natas

  BOTR, you have an advantage that most of us here don't have. You are extraordinarily well educated in the law.

  Would you be willing to share some constructive ideas with people looking for help on this subject, or is this all a lost cause as far as you are concerned?

  I have NO legal education, but I believe the rights outlined in the Constitution applies to individual human citizens, and through individuals to the organizations individuals form. Today the religious corporate entity is granted rights that no individual enjoys. But I am just a fool.

  You can learn who Doc Bob is if you wish to. Links to his posts have been cited here. Tell Ghandi I said "Hi".
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  Etude

  Band on the Run

  Although I regrettably agree with you (I understand your legal argument), I never would have thought that corporations would in my wildest dreams be considered “persons”. And yet, here we are. I also never thought that in Florida, the stand-your-ground law would acquit someone for killing another person and give another in a lesser offense, but for the same reason, a 20+ year sentence. You must admit that even though such letters amount to a crap-shoot or a poker game with the elders, it is possible that they would be considered sufficiently to make them back off.

  I remember a specific story about a guy who crashed his airplane while he had been drinking. His lawyer in turn sued Cesna, the company that made the generator, the plane tire manufacturer and everyone in between. Companies decided to settle for the simple economic reason that it cost too much to litigate the growing number of suits.

  I came from a time when in IT, companies would send each other “cease and desist” letters just because their product was "infringing" on the “look and feel” of some other product. We think that’s ridiculous now. But it worked then.

  On the other hand, I don’t believe that one should send out such a letter without the intent and the means of at least dragging their sorry asses into court. The danger is that the WTBTS may decide to make an example of one such case and back the elders with some of the money we have all so blindly contributed.
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  DeWandelaar

  I think you should not need to bring a lawsuit to the watchtower itself but to the elders. Something like: "if you ever mention my name from the platform and tell people I am disfellowshipped I will hunt your asses with lawsuits. I know all of you personally, I know where you guys live and I take this as a personal attack."

  I know that a lot of elders do not care that much anyways... it is much easier for them to let someone suddenly leave the organisation and never showing their faces again they will do no harm (like it is the case with me).
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  Jack C.

  Are you certain you want to stay? Let 'em play their game and "disfellowship" you. You'll be the better for it. Their day in court will come soon enough.....
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  cultBgone

  saving this
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  Band on the Run

  The elders make a single phone call to Bethel Legal. They now know you have no attorney. Also, lawyers charge fees. Unless your income is above upper middle classs, the ruse is up. Furthermore, your position with the elders is now weakened. You obviously know no law. Nice juicy apostate to torture even more. You have also destroyed any means of reaching an accomodation or private understanding. Elders are humans. Some may be swayed by individual circumstances. it is akin to declaring war. Why not just quit and refuse the JC?

  Again, things sound great in a novel. It does not mean it is real life. The Witnesses must educate elders on the basics of American law. There is no proof that any such letters worked. Such a letter is like waving a red piece of fabric to a bull. People writing these letters don't even have lawyers on reverse to make telephone calls.
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  Phizzy

  What has been the result Comatose ? I know you sent your letter after the J.C, but how have you got on ? did they announce anything ?
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  Band on the Run

  The problem is that unless you have legally binding statements from the elders, you have no way of knowing why they dd not press ahead. It could be ignorance of the law or something purely arbtrary such as whether they like your tie. When you consider the cossequences, it is chilling. From what I recall from past posts, elders have no procedures such as "beyond a reasonable doubt" or "preponderance of the evidence" to evaluate. Witnesses "souls" are at the mercy. How does one measure repentence?

  I wonder what happens if the local elders decline to disfellowship any member after an extended period. It is certain judicia involvement would make matters worse.