by Comatose 42 Replies latest jw friends
I used to have a webpage saved and I have lost it. A young man and his wife had faded. They had a Birthday Party for their child and were called before a judicial committee. He wrote a letter with legal stipulations listed of how he would proceed.
I have lost it... I have searched and searched for it. Does anyone else have it saved. I have a lawyer and he wants to see it.
Indepth and full explanation coming when I am free to relate this. Maybe a week or two.
BTW: You can search this site via Google by including 'site:www.jehovahs-witness.net' in the search
Two good letters to search for which you may be able to adapt for your use are Doc Bob's and lennie in Bluemont's , both old posters on here. Search their "Topics started."
The letter following was by currrent poster Black Sheep, and is very good :
" To Whom It May Concern,
I have decided that I will not formally disassociate myself from the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or from Jehovah’s Witnesses in general. I came to this decision for several reasons. First, there is nothing I see in the Bible that calls for a formal letter of disassociation in my situation, or any other. It seems to me that the provision of formal disassociation is a matter of convenience for the legal department of the Watchtower Society rather than serving any real religious purpose. It allows people to be pigeon-holed into nice neat little categories rather than dealing with the real issues involved. Also, I have no problem with the P________ Congregation or its members. My disagreement is with certain actions, policies, teachings and writings contained in publications that are produced and in oral teachings promulgated either individually or collectively by the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses and it’s legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. and the International Bible Students Association.
The purpose of this letter is to clarify certain matters and to secure and protect what I consider basic human rights in dealing with agents of the multinational, multi-billion dollar Watchtower corporations.
Since you have asked me to appear before a judicial committee to face charges of apostasy, there are a few things that I must ask for and which I feel must be clarified before I will even consider meeting with a judicial committee.
1. I shall be notified in writing of the time, place and purpose of any meetings with a judicial committee.
2. I shall be notified in writing of the exact purpose of the meetings.
3. I shall be notified in writing exactly on whose behalf the judicial committee was convened and is acting: the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.
4. If any other agency other than the one for whom the judicial committee has informed me they are acting for is consulted, reported to, or allowed to have any bearing on the outcome of the judicial process, I will consider the judicial committee as acting in the their behalf.
5. I shall be notified in writing as to my status as a member of any and all of the organizations for which the committee is acting or to which the committee will report.
6. I insist that the judicial committee immediately cease, and in the future desist from any actions toward or against me in behalf of any corporation or organization of which I am not a member.
7. I shall be notified in writing of any accusations against me, the names of persons making such accusations and the substance of any evidence against me.
8. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibilities involved in the judicial process.
9. I shall be given sufficient time between notification of any meetings with a judicial committee and the time of the actual meeting to prepare a response to any accusations.
10. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during all meetings between me and the judicial committee as an observer. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the judicial committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.
11. During the meetings with the judicial committee I and/or my observer will be allowed to take whatever notes we feel are necessary.
Additionally, if the judicial committee takes any judicial action against me :
12. I will not recognize any action taken by the judicial committee as valid unless it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.
13. In this written communication the judicial committee must state exactly on whose behalf they have taken the action, specifically the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.
14. If the judicial committee has stated that it is acting only for the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the judicial committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies of reports to anyone outside the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.
15. I may appeal any action taken by the judicial committee.
16. Before I will meet with an appeal committee, that committee must notify me in writing of the names of all of the members of the appeal committee and who each one represents: the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or it’s legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named
17. There shall be no contact between the judicial committee and the appeal committee other than to inform them of the time and place of my meetings with them. If I determine that there is any contact, communication or attempt on the part of any of the members of the original judicial committee or anyone acting on their behalf to, in any way prejudice or sway the appeal committee, I will insist that a new appeal committee be formed.
18. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibilities involved in the appeal process.
19. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during the all meetings between me and the appeal committee. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the appeal committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.
20. During the meetings with the appeal committee I and/or my observer will take whatever notes we feel are necessary.
21. I will not recognize any action taken by the appeal committee as valid unless it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.
22. In this written communication the appeal committee must state exactly on whose behalf they are taking the action, specifically the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.
23. If the appeal committee has stated that it is acting only for the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the appeal committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies or reports to anyone outside the P________ Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.
24. I understand that if I am disfellowshipped by the judicial committee and the disfellowshipping is upheld by the appeal committee that I am, at that point, no longer considered to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I also understand that it is necessary to make a brief announcement that I have been disfellowshipped. From then on, I will consider any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any of Jehovah’s Witnesses to treat me differently from any other person that is not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to be a serious violation of my civil rights and I may initiate any legal action, civil or criminal that I deem appropriate. This includes any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any present Jehovah’s Witnesses to shun or avoid me, cease or otherwise modify their doing business with me, or terminate or otherwise abrogate any lease, rental, mortgage, or any other legal agreement that I may presently have with them. I may consider such to be an infringement of free trade and may initiate appropriate legal action.
25. I consider any communication between the members of the judicial committee and myself and the appeal committee and myself to be ecclesiastically privileged. Any attempt to reveal the substance or tone of those communications to any other person or group will be considered by me to be a breach of that privilege and may result in legal action. This includes any announcements beyond the fact of my disfellowshipping, speeches, talks, or any other communication, written or oral, public or private.
I fully realize that you may be unwilling or that the Watchtower corporations will not allow you to comply with the preceding.
I respectfully await your written response. "
COMATOSE- I believe the poster named " Doc Bob " on JWN has a legal type letter format for avoiding DFing. If you check under his topics you may find it. I'd look for it right now but I have a flu virus, kind of under the weather. I used " Doc Bob's " legal letter format in 2007 and I successfully overturned my DFing. Elders don't like getting legally threatened as they turn pretty much into wimps when you stand up legally to them directly. Take care
Just dismiss ANY contact with those silly window washers playing God. Forget about them. Problem solved!!! Why waste ANY more time dealing with them???
Here is the exact letter your are looking for:
Thanks Shepherd Book! That was the one. I modified it and made use of it.
If I read these letters after a short course on American church relations, I would just laugh at the writer. It makes a mockery of long standing First Amendment law. As a lay person, I can see how one would feel assertive with conditions and conclusions in faux legal manner. Believe me, it is faux legal manner. No one would believe such a letter.
The WT is a protected religion. Disfelowshiping wil never be regulated by American courts. Both the Free Exercise Clause and the Establishment Clause forbid it. Unlike people in foreign countries, such as Nazi Germany or North Korea, every adult who converts to Jehovah's Witnesses exercised free will. As bad as Bethel is, one is chained inside and tortured. No one is raised on a compound and held apart from mainstram society. As I explained before, when people were just waiting for the ACLU to ride to the rescue, for ACLU lawyers the WT is a paradise. Human rights lawyers routinely deal with much worse around the globe.
It is an insult to human rights work to compare the WT to real abusers. The WT Legal Department seems quite active. If the elders have recourse to the Legal Deparment, they would just laugh. The problem with these letter is they serve as beacon signals declaring, "Come play and abuse me. I am soooo stupid,"
If you want rights, assert your rights. You don't write such long pseudo-legal letters to a party that you hate. These letters remind me of a puppy panting for attention. No one here should be a love sick puppy. Such letters weaken your hand. They don't strengthen it one bit. Recognizing that American law provides any remedy against the WT only in the narrowest of cases, and moving on to different strategies, is shows that you know the playing field. We suffer from the lack of education they impose on members. The WT lawyers are real ones.
I realize that you may have sent such letters and believed they made a difference. There is no causal relationsihp. Disfellowsihping is so arbritrary. How do the elders interact? Do they like your hair style? Everyone here knows of two similar offenses that had different results. Sending such letter is misguided. Show the WT they have no power over you. Don't write legal tomes or bargain with people who don't bargain.
One thing to always keep in mind is that if you threaten the legitimacy of the WT to set theological doctrine in a court of law, the Roman Catholics, mainstream Protestants such as the Lutherans, Anglicans, Jews, Baptists, Orthodox, Moslems are very threatened. Today JWs, tomorrow, one of these powerhouses. No politician is that silly. Judges are trained as judges to stay away from such cases. I concentrated in ciivil rights in law school. General civl rights. The? corporate litigators to be" and "the securities lawyers to be" heard about the protection of religion. When I researched a narrow area of the Establisment Clause a few years ago, I was shocked by the sheer numbers of law review articles on the matter.
