Sign this petition - Investigation On Jehovahs Witnesses Religious Policy That Violates Human Rights and Abuses Religious Freedom

by TJ Curioso 170 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • adamah
    adamah

    WTFree, signing that petition is doing nothing, but it's even worse than doing nothing: it IS feeding the JWs notorious "persecution complexes", something for every elder to point to and say how ex-JWs and AAWA are living up to the GB's description of apostates of trying to use every angle in the book to discredit God's org.... NEVERMIND the fact that "Satan's govt's" are actually protecting the JWs here.

    Is AAWA actually out to plant 'false flags' as operatives of the WTBTS?

    I swear, I'd hope they were actually trying to be the gang who couldn't shoot straight and hatch such with ill-conceived campaigns, as they have a track record of showing absolutely zero forethought in such stunts.... Granted, it's an old petition (from 2011) so it may be an old initiative, but it's another 'fail', since it stands absolutely NO chance at succeeding in it's goals, at least in any civilized Nation that has a Constitution (U.S., CA, GB, etc). Instead, it ONLY serves as a show of stupidity, and a PR win for the WTBTS to point to and to drive current JWs in even deeper, serving up a nice hot serving of 'confirmation bias'.

    Adam

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    I think he should have said ,

    " ALL THAT IS REQUIRED

    FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH

    IS FOR GOD

    TO DO NOTHING"

    smiddy

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    I've been talking on this forum for hears about the UN Declaration of Human Rights and wondered if anything could be done to enforce it.

    I still wonder that, seeing as how the UN apparently has no power to enforce it.

    The petition is also directed towards US authorities who would also have no authority to enforce it.

  • ?evrything
    ?evrything

    Signed. Better then anything else anyone has in mind. Its not over the top like some want.

  • Chaserious
    Chaserious

    The short answer is no, the Universal Declcaration of Human Rights can't be enforced. My take on the UDHR is that it's an aspirational document. It sets forth some nice things that we would all probably aspire to in the general sense. A lot of what it says is too general to actually "enforce." For example, the very first article says that "All human beings . . . should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood." I can't imagine how that would be enforced, and I'm not sure it would be a good idea to try. Trying to enforce one part of the UDHR, like the petition suggests, would arguably violate another portion, such as the one where people are free to practice the religion of their choosing. For Americans, maybe think of it like the Declaration of Independece. There's lot of nice sounding language, but it's not like you would think of going into court to try to enforce your right to the pursuit of happiness.

    Also, it is absurd for whoever created this petition to suggest that the Watchtower is violating the U.S. criminal torture statute. Maybe a JW will accidentally read your petition and feel sad and depressed, so the petition drafters must be torturers also. Amateur hour...

  • rmt1
    rmt1

    wearewatchingyouman, you sound like a statistical outlier, and while your example may be noteworthy it won't be representative. I only heard of one ex-JW that joined the Services out of many that got disfellowshiped, DA'ed, faded, etc.

    My two degrees and 40 years do not equip me to understand how forcing or tabling an issue, however indeterminant the outcome, is a bad thing. If JWs are so stupid as to read the pain language of that statement, and then say, "Gee, I don't agree that this is the case at all as I shun my family member and forbid this other a transfusion and forbid this other an education commensurate with inflation", then, *How were you going to coax them out in the first place?

    I admit I have never attempted to coax out a JW or play naive or be patient. My biological relatives are all under powerful senior elder thumbs and are beyond the event horizon.

    I agree there is no inherent obligation to aid JWs to get out. The ecology of memes is red in tooth and claw. I do not believe in a divine power or any other higher calling that demands rescuing victims of a cult, but rather a heartless universe that couldn't care less how many are born in the cult and die in old age. I can lean left on some issues, and this one seems an appropriate issue to address by some kind of intervention, however minimal. It's not me who decides what degree of federal or big government involvement that is, but, here's a statement and it's plausible it might be seen at a level that triggers oversight, on this issue or some other issue.

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    signed, keep them coming!!

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I signed, who knows it may do some good, just getting discussion going on this is a start.

    Here in Europe we have a Human Rights Act which has some teeth.

    One of the Articles is designed to protect family life, which WT/JW shunning does not of course.

    This is interesting too :

    Article 9. Freedom of thought, conscience and religion

    1, Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.

    2, Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

  • besty
    besty

    Personal life stories and gentle satire are the best weapons against stupid religions.

    For as long as suckers are getting born, there will be a business model to extort them, and the governments haven;t figured out where to draw a line in the sand yet.

    And in a country (USA) where 50% of the population believe equally stupid stuff you are not going to get mainstream sympathy.

    Its all therapy for the participants though.

  • Simon
    Simon

    1, Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.

    And many of us exercised that right. No one can stop us from 'not' being a JW anymore. They have no power - no one is locked in a compound or forced into a van at gunpoint and driven to a sunday meeting.

    Everything is voluntary.

    2, Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

    And when we decide that we no longer want to be part of that 'club' ... then they are allowed to not talk to us because of it in the same way that we can decide we don't want to talk to them, or anyone else, for any reason whatsoever!

    Hey, it's stupid and it makes them look like a controlling cult which should warn others not to join but you cannot prescribe against people chosing to follow those rules if they wish because again, no one forces them to do so. And lets not forget, these are rules that we too once followed.

    Now I understand, it's easier to say "I was badly treated" or "my rights were violated" rather than "I was a stupid idiot" but the reality is, most of us were stupid idiots.

    Of course many of us knew no different and were brought up with a limited amount of information ... in which case it was our parents that were stupid idiots or our grandparents. Lets be honest - someone, sometime was stupid and fell for a big fat juicy pile of BS lies. But how do you legislate against that when 80% of the planet also believes equally ludicrous stories and believes in nonsense that they allow to control their lives, even wrecking it sometimes.

    They also put pressure on people to conform but then so do most big employers - everywhere has rules.

    How do people picture the law working? That a judge will order mommy to invite you to dinner? That you will be guaranteed at least 2% of members greet you if you go to a KH?

    The Catholic church is morally responsible for encouraging people not to wear condoms and the spread of AIDs as a result. Are they legally responsible? No. That is where we are with shunning - it's morally wrong and a sign that they are a cult, it should serve as a warning to potential new recruits that hey, you may be better giving this religion a pass (which is why sharing experiences and offering support is so much more important and effective) but someone thinks the US government is going to swoop in and fix their lives and the mistakes of the past?

    It's never going to happen and in the meantime it help the WTS with THEIR message that they are being persecuted and there are groups out to get them.

    This is why I think it's a net negative with no positives.

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