The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences

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  cofty

  I think God respects our free choice, - EdenOne

  For the third time how did the 250 000 victims of the tsunami choose to be killed on 26th Dec 2004?

  since Christ's resurrection, he decided to refrain from being the type of interventionist God he had been before - EdenOne

  So how do you account for all the deaths from earthquakes and tsunamis prior to 33AD?

  they cannot expect miraculous intervention in either the triffle matters nor the big natural calamities. - EdenOne

  I hope you never thank god for your food or ask for healing or anything else. That would be hypocritical
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  Laika

  Eden, thanks for the clarification, I don't think I was too far away from your point, the reason I called it the 'prodigal son' defense was because the Father in that parable was not really 'punishing' the son by fulfilling his request, simply 'allowing nature to run its course' as you say.

  Edit: I'm not sure I'd say it's effectively the JW position either, in the sense that I didn't get from Eden that he thought god was doing it to prove a point.
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  Laika

  How does a world with an ignorant or weak god look any different from a world with no god? What makes a god of this sort worthy of our attention.

  This kind of god would still be very worthy of our attention wouldn't it? At least from a scientific standpoint.
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  jgnat

  Like the search for the elusive aether, Laika?
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  THE GLADIATOR

  tootired2care The answers offered by those in favor of theism, have so far not provided a satisfying answer to your question. For me, this question matters. Why? What right does anyones super diety have to make demands of people, and tell them what true morality, justice and love is, when it just sits back and watches this horrendous affair and many others like it for the past 200,000 years as man has evolved and suffered, and painstakingly had to figure everything out on their own anyways?

  An excellent comment. The only acceptable conclusion is that the monstrous god of the bible is pure fantasy.

  In truth there is freedom.
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  adamah

  EdenOne said-

  So, because you're candid and ethical, you chose to despise faith? If you were intellectually honest now, you would acknowledge that there are millions, even billions of people whose faith isn't means to make a living, but means to lead a better life. I don't care how you view your ancesters, but if you accuse them of leading a less than honest trade based on faith, you're being no less dishonest by implying that every man of faith is in it for the material reward or the pleasure of manipulating others.

  Faith is just another more-poetic-sounding synonym for dogmatism. I despise dogmatism: don't you?

  I already explained that the perps running a Boardwalk rigged game justify their game of chance as harmless, even beneficial, claiming they're giving their victims the hope of winning, although they cannot use the fear and intimation of eternal suffering if you don't play... So in that regard, 3-card Monte scheme is relatively more benign than religion.

  The problem with running a rigged game like 3-card Monte is they haven't figured out a way to draw out their scheme long enough: religions rely on a pay-off that cannot be disproven, since the reward is claimed to occur in the Great Hereafter in the Heavenly realm.

  Adam
• 

  alecholmesthedetective

  since Christ's resurrection, he decided to refrain from being the type of interventionist God he had been before - EdenOne

  So how do you account for all the deaths from earthquakes and tsunamis prior to 33AD? - cofty

  I hope you never thank god for your food or ask for healing or anything else. That would be hypocritical - cofty

  Especially since 33 AD, in Eden's worldview.
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  Knowsnothing

  Christians also believe in the spiritual realm which was also created as well. In this 'nature', there is no suffering, yet there is still choice. Satan rebeled and would be cast from God's presence, but there is no inherent suffering in that realm. So why would god even create this physical realm, full of suffering and 'natural evil'?

  Thanks for this thread cofty, great stuff!
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  zound

  If God interveines in a disaster of said magnitude, then he would be expected to act in a disaster of a smaller magnitude; then also in a little disaster; then again on personal disasters; then again in triffle situations of everyday life. Soon God would be expected to cure ingrown fingernails. If God would interveine to save the people in the asian tsunami, then others would ask fairly: What about ME? What about the people on that other volcano/flood/earthquake/ or whatever disaster ?

  Eden, there's a point where it is morally responsible for god or anyone to intervene - god isn't an idiot, he can find that point and ignore the 'trifle' situations in favor of the more serious and urgent cases of extreme suffering. But you're saying he is having a completely hands off approach and letting the chips fall where they may (or jesus is).

  So the only thing you have then to be thankful for is that he will intervene in your life later (perhaps when you have died) to give you everlasting life. You can't pray to ask him for anything now - ANYTHING. Even if you are in incredible danger (I hope you never are) you would be wasting your breath praying to god in help you.

  Is that really your position?
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  alecholmesthedetective

  " Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

  Epicurus