The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Being a non Christian theist, I am struck by the concept that it is people who have deemed their gods perfect. How does anyone know if God or gods are perfect? For that matter, how do we know there is only one god or that there aren't goddesses? How do we know there is one all powerful god?

    I came across this quote in a book about John Lennon and Yoko. It's very thought provoking, with the concept involved:

    ''I believe in everything, until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists even it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams aren't as real as the here and now?'' John Lennon

    We can't even prove the Greek and Romans gods didn't or don't exist. Not saying they do exist, but I am saying we cannot prove they don't. For all we know...

    I do not worry about God. I figure if he isn't fair or just, I'm not going to worry about what he thinks, or they think. I mostly know what's fair and I am only a mortal.

  • cofty
    cofty

    FHN - Once again, the topic is about how theists reconcile their god with the specific events of 26th December 2004.

    If you want t talk about other gods this thread is not the place to do it.

    Jgnat - The place where Hutton made his big discovery is not far from my house...

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    Isn't the thread about the Christian god, specifically?

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Once again, the topic is about how theists reconcile their god with the specific events of 26th December 2004.

    Cofty, the last page there was mention omnipotence. I am commenting on the concept of omnipotence: a god who can do anything it wants to do. My comment also addresses the idea that if there is a god, he must be omnipotent and choose to stop a tsunami or other natural distaster. God(s) didn't stop the events on the 26th of December 2004.

    I have realized that we don't know that god or gods are perfect, omnipotent or omnibenevolent . We don't know if God is omnipotent, all powerful, or a lone god. We don't know if God is all good or if there are good gods and bad gods. We just do not know.

    People can be good. People can be evil. Why does any theist, deist or atheist insist that if there is a god, he has to be omnibenevolent and omnipotent?

    Being a non Christian theist, I am struck by the concept that it is people who have deemed their gods perfect. How does anyone know if God or gods are perfect?

  • cofty
    cofty

    FHN - The god of christian theism is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. He is also the epitome of love. The meaning of god's love was elaborated on at length by Jesus.

    This is the ONLY god that concerns us in this thread. Feel free to ponder lesser gods in a different thread.

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    of course, only a christian would say the god of the bible is the almighty, yes?

    thus, this thread is for Christians only, all other possibilities are not recognized here

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    I spent the next few months paying very close attention to how [Christian] believers and prominent theologians responed to it."

    You forgot to include the word Christian. I should have realized you meant strictly Christian believers.

    There are so many other possibilities. I wonder if you considered at least some of them, after the tsunami.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    I have realized that we don't know that god or gods are perfect, omnipotent or omnibenevolent . We don't know if God is omnipotent, all powerful, or a lone god. We don't know if God is all good or if there are good gods and bad gods. We just do not know.

    Your answer is "it's a mystery" backed by a feckless God that sucks at his job. Why are you worshipping it?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    No, because of the laws in existence, that is impossible.

    My claim is, he could have made different laws in which a "square circle" could exist.

    Why was god constrained from making a different set of laws from the get-go?

    "Omnipotent": Able to perform any work conceivable, including designing a set of laws for a physical universe in which horrific suffering is neither inevitable nor necessary.

    If He made different Laws this THIS universe would not be THIS one, it would be another, perhaps what we call "heaven"m but it would be this one and life as it ius here, would not be like it is here.

    BUT, lets for a moment look at the argument for God DOING more to stop suffering and death or at least warn people before it comes.

    To do that we must frist assume or grant tha God exists, yes?

    So, without dealing into WHICH God ( OT, NT, ISLAM, etc) leads just take Him as the Being that is the first cause, first mover, the being that set the universe in motion over 14 billion years ago.

    That means that this being is older than the universe, thatmeans that this being of immense power does NOT see or undersand things like humans do right not, that He is far above in terms of development from humans as humans are from ants ( as an example).

    This being then KNOWS that death doesn't actually exist, it is simply a change from state A to state B before state C ( and D, and E, etc).

    This being does not feel about death as we do because He KNOWS it is NOT a bad thing, it is simply energy changing for the better, life going on to its next level of being, ever close to perfection.

    Why would a being like this, like GOD, chanhe ANY part of the natural process that He sees is correct because we don't like it?

    Why would he be concerned with a small part of existence ( death as we think it is) when He KNOWS it is not the end, but the beginning?

    You wanna judge God? great, but don't judge Him as a human, try judging Him for what He is, a being that KNOWS that death, as horrifc to us, is only such because we do not understand death and feel it is final and we suffer because we lose our loved ones. If we KNEW that death as God knows death, we would not see things the same way.

    To ask why God doesn't do A without accepting that there is a God us basically creating a God that we can fault and disprove BUT if there really IS a God and thie being did indeed create/set the universe in motion, Is a being of such immense power and knowledge if by nothing else but virtue of being older then the universe then we MUST accept that this being does NOT understand death in the very, very limted way that we do and that He KNOWS that death is NOT final and that to warn or save people from a natural process of existences is something that He simply doesn't do because there is no reason for HIM to do it.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    That means that this being is older than the universe, thatmeans that this being of immense power does NOT see or undersand things like humans do right not, that He is far above in terms of development from humans as humans are from ants ( as an example).

    This being then KNOWS that death doesn't actually exist, it is simply a change from state A to state B before state C ( and D, and E, etc).

    Full stop, do not pass go.

    Explain, specifically, why God being older than the universe and the first cause would mean any of this?

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