serious question for evolutionist,

by unstopableravens 220 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • MadGiant

    " i believe in gods word i believe in the adam and eve account." - unstop

    May I ask why?

  • Daniel1555


    I would like to show you another possible viewpoint about "theistic evolution."

    The theory of evolution does not say a word, that there is no God or no creator (only atheists and fundamentalists in the scientific world say that). Darwin did never say that there is no creator. He even ended his work "Origin of Species..." with the words:

    "There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone circling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."

    Does "theistic evolution" really contradict the creation account of the bible?

    The bible says the following:

    Gen. 1:2

    Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.

    Before something was created, Gen. 1:3, 6, 9, 11,14, 20, 24, 26, 29 shows that "God went on to say."

    So God gave the order for a creation to come into existence. He used his active force and his word.

    Gen. 1:11

    And God went on to say: Let the earth cause grass to shoot forth...

    Gen. 1:12

    And the earth began to put forth grass...

    Gen. 1:20

    And God went on to say: Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls...

    Gen. 1:24

    And God went on to say: Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds...

    These words do not describe howGod created animals and humans. It does not say that he created every species suddenly in an instance like an engineer constructing a roboter. That reasoning is coming from a human standpoint, influenced by the industrial age, not picturing how the bible describes the creator. The bible is describing the creator as someone who gives freedom and uses his spirit to go fro over the land (in a human example maybe like a wonderful artist).

    These words simply say, that God created everything by his order and his active force (also a person without scientific knowledge at that time could have understood this easily).

    It also says, that he used the sea and the earth to swarm and put forth living souls. It could very well be, that he created the universe and the natural laws in a way that the sea and the earth can swarm or produce living things successively (by God's supervision).

    These words leave it open and allow for the concept of evolution.

    Even the saying "according to its kind" is not a contradiction to a "theistic evolution." As the account was written, "all kinds" existed. If they came in millions of years successively by evolution or appeared in an instance is not relevant in this case. They exist. The bible writer describes the result, that God created all these species, not the HOW.

    Even Matthew 19:4-6 just confirms that humans were created male and female. Jesus does not say how they were created. That would have been too much for readers to understand.

    Moreover it is without a doubt clear that God used also symbolic speech in the creation account (for example 6 creative days). If he gave a scientific explanation, the readers wouldn't have understood.

    In his love God left it to us humans to stand in awe and study his creation in a scientific way and also like that come closer to him.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    You are watching too much TV. Try reading some real books, not "graphic novels."

    Who knows, you might find the answer to your questions.

  • cofty

    All the books and scientific papers in the world would not convince unstop.

    He has began with the conviction that a literal interpretation of the bible is the very word of god, and therefore everything to the contrary is wrong.

  • unstopableravens

    danail: genesis 2:7 god formed adam from the dust of the earth, this is not in line with evoultion, nor when the bible says that god put a sleep upon adam and formed eve from his rib. when jesus mentioned the male and female he was of course refering to this. you cant take the genisis account as literal and believe in evolution. thoses who believe in god and evolution are forced to reject eve coming from adams rib 6ooo years ago.

  • adamah

    'Theistic evolution' is yet another attempt to salvage a sinking ship, following in the footsteps of flat Earth believers, firmament believers, evolutionist deniers, etc. What was once believed as literal soon retreats into being interpreted as metaphorical, after science makes a literal belief downright silly. Yet in spite of the willingness to excuse the Bible's errant depiction of reality by saying, "That's not LITERAL!", believers still cannot explain, eg what the 'firmament' is actually supposed to be a symbol for?

    Here's a GREAT example of a Xian (Prof Orlando Ferguson) from the 1880's who tried to harmonize a belief in the words of the Bible (which actually DOES reflect a belief of a flat circular-shaped Earth, since that was the Hebraic conception of the World, based on earlier Babylonian and Egyptian beliefs) with the findings of science of his day:

    Of course, it was commonly-accepted that the Earth was a GLOBE for thousands of years before (and he even pooh-poohs the idea that the Earth is travelling at 65,000 mph, even though it is), but some people just don't give up easily...


  • unstopableravens

    mad: there is much proof that the bible is true, its histoically correct, the prophecys and what is says about the new birth, i know personally what the bibles says about being changed is true because it happened to me.

  • cofty

    thoses who believe in god and evolution are forced to reject eve coming from adams rib 6ooo years ago.

    How much forcing do you think it takes to NOT believe that woman was made from a man's rib 6000 years ago?

    Do you have the slightest clue about how much evidence you have to ignore in order to believe that?

    Why won't you consider the evidence? Ignorance is a choice.

  • unstopableravens

    cofty: your missing my point, my point to mr danial was that to be a thiest/evolutionist you cant except all of the bible.

  • bohm

    unstop:the bible is very historically inaccurate, you say so yourself on this page...

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