Dawkins Chapter 2 - Dogs, Cows and Cabbages (page 3)

zound

Perhaps "The Magic of Reality" may be more to your liking Kate - it gets straight to the point and covers alot of interesting topics.

snare&racket

I have used plato and rabbits to explain people's misconception and mental obstacle to evolution many times, maybe read it again....

KateWild

Do you think you are giving it a fair reading?-Bohm

I am trying my best, honestly. I did find two points interesting, hairpin theory and gene pools. I will try much harder in Chapter 3. I promise. Kate xx

KateWild

The explanation of artificial selection to explain natural selection was clear-Braincleaned

AAHHHHH!!! Thanks for that. That's what all the dog stuff was about. Your simple scentence just gave me a lightbulb moment. I am recalling all the details now. It makes more sence to me. It may have been clear for you. But Dawkins was far more convoluted than your simple clear phrase. I totally missed his point, which is a very good point and interesting too.

Kate xx

KateWild

snare, yes maybe I will read it again. Kate xx

snare&racket

Kate, in all honesty (please dont take offence) I get the feeling you are reading it to pull it apart, that isnt working however because you have to understand it first. If you read it with sincere interest, research the topics mentioned, dig out the dictionary and books whenever you lose track or miss the point being made, it will all add up to an enlightening experience I assure you. He is trying to succinctly join up a lot of dots he assusmes some readers may be missing, he cant explain everything, so if he signposts something you dont know or understand, stop and research it before carrying on... It may sound like effort, but he is reducing several degrees all years in length, to a book anyone can pick up...

This is not a personal attack, the in's and out's of genetics, biology, genetic mutation and its selection by enviroment, human psychology and perspective, the religious and cultural blindfolds on human perspective, scientific theory, practice and its foundational philosophies .... Are all relevant to the topic. Of course it is easier to read genesis chapter 1 and it simply makes sense, a big man in the sky made everything and an original man and a woman. But the truth is far more complex.... So easy read...or the truth? Its a sincere choice to be made....

Prof Dawkins and any author in modern science has to cover a lot of ground in the first few chapters before the information can really be discussed. It is suprising how limited we were in our knowledge due to our watctower 'education'. As I said, If you dont quite understand something, stop and start your digging until you do understand..... Afterall .... If you dont.... Why are you reading it In the first place?

By the way, this is really hard stuff, you are doing well to even go at it, dont give up... if you need help understanding you can come and ask for help here... But it is always best to do the leg work yourself.

Please let us know how you get on, stick at it xxx

snare x

p.s. Nobody is born with knowledge, everyone has to seek it then earn it by working to understand it. Its sad that so e simply give up, even sadder, they get annoyed at the people that concquered the challenge and assume much about how those people view themselves, simply because they made the effort... to know! In reality most are desperate to share what they have learned.... Some people call passionate preaching of amazing evidence "militant atheism", i guess it is all about perspective, the horizone being... Taking the effort to know.

KateWild

snare, to be fair I was pulling Dawkins apart after I saw snippets of youtube videos. Yeah so I was a little bias.

Why are you reading it In the first place? - snare

cofty, linked me his book promotion video, which I really wasn't impressed with at all. But cofty promoted it very well. So snare, I may be bias, but I believe in evolution. I think it's more to do with biology. I am more interested in chemistry, inorganic and physical chem. Maybe that's why I am struggling to enjoy his book.

But I will read Ch 3, you have some good points, I am not offended in the least. Kate xx

tec

That's hypocrisy Tammy. You have utter contempt for science.

There is zero hypocrisy in anything that I have stated. Your opinion is that I have contempt for science... but I don't. Never have. Just because I recognize the limitations of science, and know that it is not the end-all/know-all... does not mean I hold it in contempt, in the least. I respect science for what it is, but if I am going to read about a subject in science, I would prefer to read from someone(s) who is not biased and does not have another agenda to promote alongside teaching the science.

I am curious if Dawkins is known more for being a scientist... or an anti-theist. I suspect the latter.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with evolution to begin with. There is a lot we do not understand about it, how it works, as well as tracking it through history. There is a lot we do understand, but plenty that we don't, and I am interested to know what new discoveries are coming. Probably not as interested as you, lol... but interested nonetheless.

Peace,

tammy

Qcmbr

Science and religion need not be in conflict they just tend to be the moment a decision is made by an individual that religion/faith is a better way to achieve knowledge than the scientific method. There is a fundamental shift in the basis of what evidence is acceptable, what would invalidate that conclusions reached and what explanatory power those conclusions give. The moment you are convinced you are in contact with a supernatural being you have made a stance shift in reality, no matter what physical or material evidence or theories or conclusions are presented they will be rejected outright unless they support the supernatural demands.

As a believer I thought myself wonderfully open minded as I read the theories on evolution but all the while my reality filter was rejecting the information and re-explaning it in some form of christian timeframe / creation worldview. This is where the conflict exists -inside the head of the person who has chosen a sub-optimal path to truth.

Science will march on regardless of the debates and will continue to discover how this reality works. Faith and religion never will since they all lack a means to approach and evaluate knowledge but start from a given (deity / spirit / woo x exists) and then explains all competing information as part of that whole.

To really be open minded is hard because it normally means accepting that you do not know, that you were wrong and that cherished invisible friends are figments of your imagination. In 100 years the books written about evolution will be radically improved with massive strides made in understanding the implications and making use of them (we will be doing real genetic manipulation rather than praying for them which is the sum total of the faith based contribution.) Dawkins will be hailed as a great educator but many of his statements will have been improved and expanded. Science never stops doubting and never stops to say 'this is TRUTH' bow down and worship.

KateWild

Science will march on regardless of the debates and will continue to discover how this reality works. Faith and religion never will since they all lack a means to approach and evaluate knowledge-Qcmbr

I am afraid I disagree, Einstein's religious beliefs fuelled his desire to investigate science. He made wonderful discoveries because of his faith. Faith and religion don't stop everyone from making scientific discoveries. I find people stop moving forward in science, because they are more interested in other topics. IMO it's not always about faith and religion.

In Dawkin's case IMO it's religion that drives him, but just from the opposite perspective. He wants to educate the uneducated churgoer.

Kate xx

Dawkins Chapter 2 - Dogs, Cows and Cabbages

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