Do you think Born Agains are tired of waiting for the "Rapture"?

by booker-t 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    He will come when He comes, without losing even one who belongs to Him and who can come to Him. Not all who belong to Him have yet come to Him.

    Ummm!! thinking ... thinking.. Oh! yes... Jesus promised:

    20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

    25 “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Mancoming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

    29 He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near."

    32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

    NIV

    When was Jerusalem surrounded by armies? Was it 66 CE? Yes, that was the year.

    haha! Jesus idea of a generation is even longer than the JW generation....

  • tec
    tec

    That generation didn't pass away before Jerusalem was destroyed.

    But Christ also spoke about end times, including things that have not yet happened... and some mix the two up.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    That generation didn't pass away before Jerusalem was destroyed.

    But Christ also spoke about end times, including things that have not yet happened... and some mix the two up.

    OK! so that generation 'experienced something' - the end of the temple!

    But if 'some' mix up the 'end of the temple' and your illusionary 'end-times' its because it is "mixed up" in the author's scrambling of information. There is no clear identification of an 'end-times' thousands of years away in time, in this narrative.

    The author, writing decades after this conversation supposedly occurred, places this group-of proto-christians in or near the Temple. Jesus, as this author tells the story, has just had a 'bitch-session' about the Jewish elite (Ch 20), the sadducees, scribes, chief priests. Then comes a short homily on the poor widow's small contribution. And then, in Ch21, someone starts talking about how nice the temple is, and that sets the Jesus character off on another tirade - the temple is going to be destroyed!

    Ah! something new, so "they" question him. "When?" they ask. So Jesus' answer must be about the end of the temple and how they will know its approaching.

    Your insertion of an 'end-times,' as the main subject of the Jesus tirade is an artificial, interpretive device, intended to try to get around the fact that the Jesus character in the narrative, makes a 'prophecy' that has clearly failed.

    And, if the Jesus character makes just one false prophecy/promise then the whole imagined illusion collapses.

    If you have a need to live your life in an illusion, I have no quarrel with your need. But, why insist that other people need to live inside this false story, too?

  • tec
    tec

    I don't insist anyone live in anything... be that true or false. So i'm not really the person you should ask that question of.

    The tribulation that Christ spoke of when giving John his revelation, in the book of Revelation, has people from EVERY tribe, nation, language coming out, made clean in the blood of the lamb. How would that apply to the temple falling in jerusalem in 70 ad?

    Peace,

    tammy

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Is that like the whole earth being flooded, tec? Contemporary world maps were a lot smaller than what they are today. What did every tribe and nation look like to Nazarene fisherman?

  • cofty
    cofty

    Christ also spoke about end times, including things that have not yet happened... and some mix the two up

    Jesus was unambiguous. The fall of Jerusalem and his parousia were part of the same sequence of events.

    If Jesus actually said the things recorded in Matt 24 he was a deluded fool.

  • tec
    tec

    No... it is more specific than the whole world, isn't it?

    It is certainly more than just Israel being spoken of who come out of the great tribulation. Because Israel and the her twelve tribes are already spoken about in the 144 000. In addition to those, a great multitude that no one can count, from every nation, tribe, people and language... come out.

    Do you think that every nation and tribe (in addition to Israel) looks like those few who came out of Jerusalem before she was surrounded by armies, her temple destroyed?

    Peace,

    tammy

  • cofty
    cofty

    My god it's like listening to a JW public talk.

    A verse ripped out of context is used to explain a random verse from elsewhere.

    Most believers actually have no respect for the bible.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Most believers actually have no respect for the bible.

    Its rather amusing on this site, to watch how "other" Christian's criticise Watchtowerism and its ventures into biblical interpretation, and then seek to interpret the Bible in very similar ways.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Tammy's soteriology and her eschatology is basically Watchtower marque II

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