Could this be an evidence that God exists

by His Excellency 15 Replies latest jw experiences

  • His Excellency
  • adamah


    How do you connect the dots between someone with phocomelia, to proving the existence of God?

    Even though I don't argue the existence of God on that basis, I'd think a much-stronger case could be made for children being born with such birth defects points to the non-existence of a God.

  • cantleave

    Not at all. It shows that the human spirit, our determination to achieve and survive can overcome enormous adversity.

    What sort of god would allow someone to suffer like that? A total asshole!

  • OnTheWayOut

    I am with Adamah. If you think this man's attitude on life is some kind of proof, then all I have to do is find some with a negative attitude to offer some kind of proof of God's nonexistance.

  • Witness My Fury
  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    This is all the proof I need....

  • tootired2care

    Great sattire!

  • Terry

    The simple way to argue is this.

    Truth=Reality match.

    We test by looking for either a match or contradiction.

    What is not real cannot be matched to reality.

    God is asserted into a special category of Metaphysics not Physics.

    Why? Is it because He is a "spirit"?

    No. It is because by making God metaphysical you remove Him from disproof.

  • MadGiant

    Confirmation Bias

    Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

    This is the way babies/childrens with disabilities were treated though history.

    Where is this god you are talking about?

    Sparta 800 BCE Ancient Spartan society involved rule of the state in deciding whether weak children were to be reared or left to die. In Sparta, children were the property of the state and not the property of the parents. The abandonment of babies who appeared disabled was a legal requirement. Each child was inspected by the community elders straight after birth. The child was brought before a council of the elders and, through Apgar-style tests, the council determined whether the child would live or die. If the child looked robust and healthy, it was allowed to live. If the child was "ill-born" or "ill-formed," the father was ordered to expose it.

    500 BCE Early Roman Republic The father's power is absolute to kill, mutilate, or sell his children. Roman society didn't have a word equivalent to "disabled" but used "monstrum." The birth of a child with a disability was regarded as a great misfortune. A high percentage were abandoned outdoors immediately after birth and left to die. Physical fitness and health were believed to be signs of the gods' favor, and disability was seen as a mark of the gods' displeasure; a divine punishment of the child's parents. An abnormal birth was indication that catastrophe was just around the corner.

    460 -- 370 BCE Hippocrates Writings began to show concern for children and a separation of their illnesses from those of adults. According to Hippocrates, a person's health involved the relationship of four humors: blood (heart), phlegm (liver), yellow bile (spleen) and black bile (brain). He believed that epilepsy had a "natural cause." He believed that nature was the great healer: rest, good diet, fresh air, cleanliness. He was one of the first physicians to believe that thoughts, ideas, and feelings come from the brain and not the heart. He moved medicine into humans' hands instead of the gods. He rejected the view that illnesses and disabilities were caused by possession of evil spirits or disfavor of the gods.

    427 -- 347 BCE Plato "The best of either sex should be united with the best as often, and the inferior with the inferior, as seldom as possible; and that they should rear the offspring of the one sort of union but not of the other, if the flock is to be maintained in first rate condition ... The offspring
    of the inferior, or of the better when they chance to be deformed, shall be put away." "This is the kind of medical provision you should legislate in your state. You should provide treatment for those of your citizens whose physica constitution is good. As for the others, it will be best to leave the unhealthy to die, and to put to death those whose psychological condition is incurably corrupt. This is the best thing to do, both for the individual sufferer and for society."

    384 -- 322 BCE Aristotle "Let there be a law that no deformed child shall live."

    3rd Century BCE Athens There is some controversy over the belief that the ancient Greeks (as well as ancient Spartans and Romans) were really as horrible as we are told to believe. The Greeks nevertheless admired and desired the perfect physique, the body and face beautiful. Greek law dictated that a newborn baby was not really a child until seven days after birth, so that an imperfect child could be disposed of with a clear conscience. "Good" is equal to "beautiful" and deformed or disabled was "bad."

    2 nd Century CE Any kind of defective person became a popular source of household amusement: there was a special
    market where one might purchase legless, armless, or 3-eyed men, giants, dwarfs, or hermaphrodites.

    1573 Ambroise Pare -- "Monstres et Prodiges" (On Monsters and Marvels) On the causes of Monsters: Monsters are things that appear outside the course of nature (and are usually signs of some forthcoming misfortune), such as a child who is born with one arm, another will have two heads and additional members over and above the ordinary. There are several things that cause monsters.
    The first is the glory of God.
    The second, his wrath.
    The third, too great a quantity of seed.
    The fourth, too little a quantity.
    The fifth, the imagination.
    The sixth, the narrowness or smallness of the womb.
    The seventh, the indecent posture of the mother, who, while pregnant remains seated too long with her legs crossed or pressed against her stomach.
    The eighth, through a fall, or blows, struck against the womb of the mother, being with child.
    The ninth, through heredity or accidental illness.
    The tenth, through rotten or corrupt seed.
    The eleventh, through a mixture or mingling of seed.
    The twelfth, through the artifice of wicked spital beggars.
    The thirteenth, through Demons and Devils.

    Yes, I can see god alright.


    Take care,


  • prologos

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