Conversation I had with Elder, "It's Ok To Lie If they don't deserve the truth!" Who created this dogma?

by AuntConnie 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Scully

  Wasn't there a heavenly pow-wow, where Jehovah wanted to thwart some evil bastard and one angel volunteered to serve as a "deceptive spirit" within the prophets, to mislead the army?

  It was Ahab. 1 Kings 22:20-23

  20 And Jehovah proceeded to say, ‘Who will fool A´hab, that he may go up and fall at Ra´moth-gil´e·ad?’ And this one began to say something like this, while that one was saying something like that. 21 Finally a spirit came out and stood before Jehovah and said, ‘I myself shall fool him.’ At that Jehovah said to him, ‘By what means?’ 22 To this he said, ‘I shall go forth, and I shall certainly become a deceptive spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ So he said, ‘You will fool him, and, what is more, you will come off the winner. Go out and do that way.’ 23 And now here Jehovah has put a deceptive spirit into the mouth of all these prophets of yours; but Jehovah himself has spoken calamity concerning you.”
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  AnnOMaly

  Iamallcool: Ann, where did you get the list of the scriptures?

  Somebody compiled them for a forum discussion years ago. I kept the list and added some examples of my own.
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  Vidiot

  AndDontCallMeShirley - "...secular courts understand that fudging the truth in any manner is not acceptable."

  And that is how it should be.

  Of course, after the Walsh case, the current GB know full well what would happen if any of them were ever required to personally testify under oath in their own (or the WT's) defense.

  If they were fully, 100% honest, they'd be publicly exposed as the terrible people they really are (to both the R&F and the rest of the world)... but if they were dumb enough to try fudging the truth in the Information Age, the reams of evidence out there would fully expose them as liars, hypocrites, and frauds.

  So, I suppose the million-dollar question is, "how does one go about putting members of the Governing Body on the stand?"
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  eyeuse2badub

  Just like the words 1) soon, 2) generation, 3) love, the WTBTS has it's own definition of the word LIE!

  eyeuse2badub
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  adamah

  Let's not forget the Dinah incident, where Levi and Simeon lied to the Shechemites, telling them that they would need to be circumcized to form a family alliance with them; they agreed to do so, but the brothers used their weakened state to kill them. If the Bible condones MURDER of others, then what's the problem with a bit of deception, too? It's all done "to the glory of God", right? Levi went on to become the head priest under Moses, the patriarch of the Levitical class, the very family lineage the book of Leviticus is named after.

  Adam
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  AnnOMaly

  Adamah - I'll add that one to my list!

  Edit: Actually on second thoughts, it doesn't belong in the list because their deceit was condemned. The list's examples are ones where deceit was condoned.
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  (Titus 1:2) 2 upon the basis of a hope of the everlasting life which God, who cannot lie,. . .

  compared to:

  "Finally a spirit came out and stood before Jehovah and said, ‘I myself shall fool him.’ At that Jehovah said to him, ‘By what means?’ 22 To this he said, ‘I shall go forth, and I shall certainly become a deceptive spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ So he said, ‘You will fool him, and, what is more, you will come off the winner. Go out and do that way." 1 Kings 22:20-23

  So, I guess if god appoints liars as his proxy, technically god is not lying? Alrighty then!

  Secular court: If person A hires person B as a hit man to go kill someone, guess what? Both persons A and B are on the hook for murder.

  If only god had the same high standard of justice as his human creation.

  If the Bible condones MURDER of others, then what's the problem with a bit of deception, too?

  That pretty much sums it up.
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  flipper

  The WT Society created this view, not Jesus. WT Society has been a snake oil salesman type marketing group for 139 years since 1879, but it's just more blatant and noticeable now, as they are getting more desperate to cover their failed prophecies and expectations by verbalizing BS and flip-flopping on many of their teachings . Just to maintain a " materialistic " view of their billion $$$ financial empire ? Pretty lame, I agree
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  adamah

  AnoMaly said-

  Edit: Actually on second thoughts, it doesn't belong in the list because their deceit was condemned. The list's examples are ones where deceit was condoned.

  Their father chewed Simeon and Levi out for creating a ruckus and out of fear of retaliation by the other Caananites, but NOT for deceiving/murdering. There was no condemnation for deceit/murder, certainly not by God Himself, who remained mute during the account. The story of Jacob continues on in the next chapter as if nothing happened, and God didn't mention it (and Levi became God's Chosen high priest, after the murder of a townful of Shechemites).

  The story of Dinah likely served as a polemic to support the later appearance of a law forbidding Jews from inter-marrying, even seemingly justifying use of deceit and murder to forceably prevent impurity from entering the bloodline.

  PS don't know if it's on the list already, but don't forget about Abram's lying to the princes of Egypt about his wife Sarah being only his sister in order to fool them into giving her stuff (and technically it was a half-truth, since Sarah WAS his sister; she was his half-sister whom he'd married).

  Also, God admits to hardening the heart of Pharoah, i.e. God interfered with his WILLINGNESS to comply with Moses' demands of "let my people go!" since God had some cool magic tricks, and He wanted to put on a magic show (like killing the firstborn sons of Egypt).

  There's a long history of the use of deception in the OT stemming back to the patriarachs, since God was on their side.

  Adam