Conversation I had with Elder, "It's Ok To Lie If they don't deserve the truth!" Who created this dogma?

by AuntConnie 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AuntConnie
    AuntConnie

    What is the origin of "Theocratic Warfare" and Jehovah's Witnesses being able to freely life if they feel it's for the "greater good" of the Watchtower? I asked the elder if Jesus Christ ever lied, he said "Yes, Jesus refused to answer questions from people!" Can you show me where this is in the Bible? He flipped through the NWT looking everywhere for this core-doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses and could not find Jesus Christ telling lies.

    He's not a block-head elder and still he's not a brainiac either, where do JWs get the idea Jesus Christ, Paul, Peter, and the Apostles taught it was cool to lie? What Scriputres did Jesus speak of lying? Was it Paul or Peter who said "when in trouble or forced to speak about your brothers, you can lie because Jehovah said it's ok!" I will share my response after floating this ballon to some of the scholarly members of JWN. I feel sick because most JWs are not reading their Bible anymore, the trouble of finding little books like Amos, Nahum and Jonah are confounding me. Telling the World that "Jehovah's Witnesses cherish their Bible" how the Year Book and Magazines portray us is lying (Theocratic Warfare)? Why are we turning into a Organization full of fraudsters and putting our focus on material things for the Patterson Project? Jehovah must think we are a dirty people who apostasized from his earlier searching members of the 1870s to 1916 Era, now we are allowing them to deprogram our brain's thinking skills. We are gross sinners for ignoring God's Word the Bible, Lord have mercy we turned our Christian Freedom over to eight constipated old men!

  • jhine
    jhine

    Aunt Connie , I understand that some JWs use the example of Rahab lying to her people to save the Israelite spies .She then gets a mention in Hebrews where she is recomended for her faith .

    I do not agree that this gives us permission to lie as Christians but this is I believe one excuse that JWs use .

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    My understanding of theocratic warfare ( back in the early `90`s ) was not so much as outright lying , just not giving out the truth as it stands.In other words ,withholding information if it wasn`t to your benefit . Not volunteering information if it was going to weaken your argument .And deflecting the discussion away from the point your adversary is trying to make.Jehovahs witnesses put politicians to shame with their ability of "spin"

    So it could be summed up as comitting the sin of omission .

    smiddy

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    Jesus remained silent when no answer was deserving. (John 19:8-10) He also refused to answer when questioned by the Pharisees. (Matthew 21:23-27) There's a slight difference between refusing to answer and outright lying!! (sarcasm intended!) Try it in a court of law, if you don't believe it.

  • Iamallcool
  • bigmac
    bigmac

    eight constipated old men!

    you know this for certain ? have you any evidence ?

  • cantleave
    cantleave
    Aunt Connie , I understand that some JWs use the example of Rahab lying to her people to save the Israelite spies

    Let's all lie like whores!

  • tornapart
    tornapart

    John 7:1-10..... Jesus told his brothers that he wasn't going up to Jerusalem, when really he was. He went up in secret after he'd told them he wasn't going.

  • Listener
    Listener

    This article probably sums up their view on it

    W 57 5/1

    Use Theocratic War Strategy

    A WITNESS of Jehovah was going from house to house in Eastern Germany when she met a violent opposer. Knowing at once what to expect she changed her red blouse for a green one in the very next hallway. No sooner had she appeared on the street than a Communist officer asked her if she had seen a woman with a red blouse. No, she replied, and went on her way. Did she tell a lie? No, she did not. She was not a liar. Rather, she was using theocratic war strategy, hiding the truth by action and word for the sake of the ministry.

    In this she had good Scriptural precedent. Did not Rahab hide the Israelite spies by both action and word? Did not Abraham, Isaac, David and others likewise hide the truth at times when faced with a hostile enemy? They certainly did, and never do we read a word of censure for their doing so. Rather, we read of their being termed exemplary servants of Jehovah. Their actions were in line with Jesus’ wise counsel: “Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves.”—Matt. 10:16, NW.

    Perhaps some will wonder as to where the line is to be drawn between use of theocratic war strategy in hiding the truth and the telling of lies. First of all, let it be noted that whenever one takes an oath to tell the truth he is obligated to do so. By dedicating himself to do God’s will each Christian has taken a vow or made an oath to do God’s will and to be faithful to him. To this oath he certainly must be true. Likewise, when a Christian is placed on a witness stand he is obligated to speak the truth if he speaks at all. At times he may prefer to refuse to speak and suffer the consequences rather than betray his brothers or the interests of God’s work. And, of course, there is no occasion for use of war strategy when dealing with our Christian brothers. In dealing with them we tell the truth or tactfully remind them that what they seek to know does not concern them.

    Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent.

    A great work is being done by the witnesses even in lands where their activity is banned. The only way they can fulfill the command to preach the good news of God’s kingdom is by use of theocratic war strategy. By underground methods the literature is brought into the country and distributed. Would it make sense to hide this literature by one’s actions and then reveal its whereabouts by one’s words when queried? Of course not! So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good.

    Today God’s servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God’s servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God’s kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Condoned lying in the bible

    1) Abraham lied to Abimelech not telling him Sarah was his wife

    2) Isaac did the same lying that his Rebekah was not his wife

    3) Jacob and Rebekah lied to Isaac with Jacob pretending to be Esau

    4) Rahab lied to protect the spies (I can see that)

    5) Jesus supposedly withheld the truth (lied)

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