Evolution, Biogeography VS. Experimental archaeology

by Brother of the Hawk 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Brother of the Hawk
    Brother of the Hawk

    I thought of posting this on an ongoing thread regarding “Proof of Noah’s flood” by poster *LOST*, but I think a separate thread is needed. This is why.

    First my disclaimer. This thread is a “THEORY” since so many people love “The THEORY” and so as not to hurt feelings and insult anyone, this is only a “THEORY.”

    My personal observation is this, as long as you bash Watchtower all is ok. As soon as you try to present any resemblance of Christianity or any belief in the bible, such as the flood, you are personally bashed. There is a certain group of posters who like to cyber bully, by telling the poster *lost* in her thread, “You can do all the research you want, just don’t post it here.” This behavior is childish and needs to be stopped because this type of behavior not only is “bullying,” but it shuts down dialog, conversation and creativity.

    Is this not what Watchtower does?

    By telling *lost* “You can do all the research you want, just don’t post it here” you are copying Watchtower and playing into their hands. You are killing free thinking because people are afraid to post, why does this group feel they have to shut down research and posting of such research? As an experimental archaeologist I could post a question that I am sure, without access to the internet, you cannot answer, that would be unfair to me because what you think is absolute, is not absolute.

    I thought The WTBTS was the only one who controlled the information, I guess I was wrong.

    I entered the thread with thought provoking questions, in fact I made the poster Cofty change his post regarding his statement about biogeography and all marsupials evolved in Australia, (southern hemisphere) well, that did not set well with him, and the next post He said “Now let me tell you about the opossum”. So Cofty I will get back to you in a bit. So you see, when you make a condescending statement like this, “I love discussing these topics but it would be refreshing to see some effort from the other side”, then at me personally “Is an experimental archaeologist somebody who finds fossils as a hobby and then makes stuff up? The gloves will come off. You see folks, there is a clear leader for all the cyber bullying and it is Cofty. I will be back to this in a minute.

    Next we come to MP and his post regarding his salt experiment. He asserted, without any thought, “Even if the world was covered in water, the land would have been salted and ruined.” Perhaps you forgot to think about the Hawaiian Islands, not only do they “Evolve” in the same salt you claimed would ruin the land, you also forgot to include, they are still “Evolving” by means of volcanic activity. But yet the Islands are full of life. And before you assert any time frame, check current data, this chain of Islands is continually being destroyed and reappearing by tectonic plate movement. Unlike some other islands that are a product of continental shifting these islands are not made that way. MP this will be the second time I have made you change your post.

    Now Comatose: After your insults, I hope you felt better. First, learn the difference between geologist and archaeologist; clearly you don’t know the difference. But regarding the fossil record I mentioned and how they were made, you asked me if I realized fossils don’t just form due to water? Why did you ask this question out of context? What does an insect in Amber fossils have to do with water and sediment made fossil? What does a dinosaur falling in a tar pit have to do with water and sediment making fossils? In order to keep it in context you must have meant to say. I do realize the wooly mammoth and the hairy Rhino, were flash frozen, in fact with green vegetation not only in the stomach but also in their mouths, which would indicate at time of death, (by instant freezing, a product of water) they were grazing and eating from trees, which I also realize the area must not have been covered by a polar cap, but must have been eating and grazing in a tropical type area. I do also realize that any animal, any type of animal would be capable of migrating to another area to avoid the tremendously slow moving glacier. I apologize for my ignorance.

    That’s ok Comatose; I just changed your post for you. BTW, you might just learn something from these links regarding how fossils are made, you will find a common method and how an extremely stroke of luck it would be to actually have fossils in tar pits and amber. But Ice and sediment are very common. And no longer is there any evidence of this happening since the flood, you see the conditions to make world wide sediment fossils no longer exist. http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/dinofossils/Fossilhow.html

    http://www.livescience.com/37781-how-do-fossils-form-rocks.html

    http://www.fossils-facts-and-finds.com/how_are_fossils_formed.h

    BTW everyone reading this thread, not at one time did anyone have the decency to ask me what an experimental archaeologist was, and what my field of study was? All the insults came with the assumption that they knew what it was. WRONG! Again, Bullying

    Now to you Cofty, The gloves are off. In the above mentioned thread, you made some very bold statements about biogeography, one of which I made you correct, I will do that again,

    Wait for it…

    I DID read about biogeography, in fact the link you posted. Then I went to Google and read all I could read. But I could nowhere find the language you asserted. You know what you asserted, so I don’t think I need to repost it. Well, while doing other research regarding Darwin, the evolution theory, and how they relate to the book of revelation, I found this little gem.

    http://creation.com/biogeography The link you posted from an evolution site proved to be very one- sided. THIS LINK presents BOTH SIDES! Please note the language you used, is used in this article. Your original assertion was all marsupials evolved in Australia. This article states while “most marsupials ended up in the southern hemisphere, (your assertion referring to marsupials evolving in Australia is incorrect), because the fossil record shows all marsupial are from the Americas. Your Lemur, that you asserted evolved in Madagascar, the fossil record shows they are from Africa. There is no fossil record of either species evolving in Australia or Madagascar. So your biogeography assertions are wrong.

    For those of you who wish to explore further the flood account, here are some links you might enjoy. Please, as you read them put them in proper context, of particular interest is the chart made from recent core samples from Greenland. And also please read the link regarding C-14 which is radiocarbon dating, it is NOT an accurate means of dating the earth. http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/

    http://www.specialtyinterests.net/carbon14.html

    OK Cofty now for the KO punch. Tell me why, for a person who posted your current illness did you turn to the very people you look down upon for comfort? Your actions are Hyprocritical! If you truly do believe in evolution and its theory, why are you not accepting the fact that evolution has selected you for termination, because you no longer fit the criteria of “survival of the fittest”! The conflict is truly yours, in opposition to evolution you try to extend your life. This is a prime example of what you assert, to those who contend with you. “ Intellectual dishonesty”!

    Brother of the Hawk

  • adamah
    adamah

    First my disclaimer. This thread is a “THEORY” since so many people love “The THEORY” and so as not to hurt feelings and insult anyone, this is only a “THEORY.”

    First problem: LEARN the definition of the word THEORY. What you offer is NOT a Universal Flood "theory" (a hypothesis that has experimental evidence to back it up), but in is fact a Flood HYPOTHESIS, a hunch or guess about a mechanism that you feel warrants further investigation but which currently has no experimental evidence to back it up.

    You clearly don't understand that, or you wouldn't have repeated the "it's only a THEORY" jab (often directed against the theory of evolution), which is proof-positive that the person who says it doesn't understand that theories are hypotheses that HAVE earned the right to be called 'theories', after having been confirmed by multiple independent lines of scientific research (eg evolution is supported by fossil records, DNA analysis, even observed changes in living species of bacteria, viruses, AKA drug resistance).

    You call yourself an "experimental archaeologist", but seemingly you don't even KNOW the difference between a theory and hypothesis? My-oh-my.... I won't embarrass you by asking your credentials to make such a claim, as I can only imagine the rigorous study required (and the $5 SASE and box-top off a sugery cereal).

    If it helps, think of Richard Dawkins book entitled, "The God Hypothesis". Dawkins is correct, and he KNOWS the difference between a theory and a hypothesis, since the existence of any and all deities REMAINS hypotheses, a guess, a hunch, what some believers might desparately WANT to be true, but for which no scientific evidence exists. Thus God's existence remains unproven, and it cannot be referred to as "The God Theory".

    Adam

  • LostGeneration
    LostGeneration
    If you truly do believe in evolution and its theory, why are you not accepting the fact that evolution has selected you for termination, because you no longer fit the criteria of “survival of the fittest”! The conflict is truly yours, in opposition to evolution you try to extend your life. This is a prime example of what you assert, to those who contend with you. “ Intellectual dishonesty”!

    Please, please tell me that this part is a joke. Evolution IS NOT survival of the fittest in any way, shape or form.

    I'm sure Cofty will need a couple of weeks to recover from this "KO".

  • Brother of the Hawk
    Brother of the Hawk

    adamah: Neither one of these terms are based in facts. The defintions sound the same to me. Is this the best you've got?

    Really?

    the·o·ry

    noun \ ' the-?-re, ' thir-e\ pluralthe·o·ries

    Definition of THEORY

    1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another 2 : abstract thought :speculation 3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory> 4 a: a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b: an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory <in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all> 5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <the wave theory of light> 6 a: a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b: an unproved assumption :conjecture c: a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations> Hypothesis:

    hy·poth·e·sis

    noun \hi- ' pä-th?-s?s\ pluralhy·poth·e·ses \- ? sez\

    Definition of HYPOTHESIS

    1 a:an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument

    b: an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action 2 : a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences 3 : the antecedent clause of a conditional statement See hypothesis defined for English-language learners » See hypothesis defined for kids » Another example of someone not looking up what the terms mean....
  • adamah
    adamah

    adamah: Neither one of these terms are based in facts. The defintions sound the same to me. Is this the best you've got?

    Really?

    OK, then you've made it's crystal-clear you have absolutely NO IDEA of the basics definitions of crucial terms to understand before discussing any scientific endeavor, but WORSE: you seemingly don't actually care enough to LEARN! Instead, you seem merely content to strike a few scientific poses, as if mimicking someone who's only content to act like a scientist on the internet. So have a good time!

    Adam

    PS in case you care to learn:

    http://ncse.com/media/evc1

    Here's the first chapter:

    http://ncse.com/files/pub/creationism/Evo%20vs.%20Creationism--2nd%20edition--Chapter%201.pdf

    That's a well-written introduction to the scientific method, written by Eugenie C Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education. She is able to communicate about science topics in a manner which makes them easy for laypeople to understand.

  • bohm
    bohm

    I was thinking of writing a reply and then i read this:

    OK Cofty now for the KO punch. Tell me why, for a person who posted your current illness did you turn to the very people you look down upon for comfort? Your actions are Hyprocritical! If you truly do believe in evolution and its theory, why are you not accepting the fact that evolution has selected you for termination, because you no longer fit the criteria of “survival of the fittest”! The conflict is truly yours, in opposition to evolution you try to extend your life. This is a prime example of what you assert, to those who contend with you. “ Intellectual dishonesty”!

    Really?

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    OK Cofty now for the KO punch. Tell me why, for a person who posted your current illness did you turn to the very people you look down upon for comfort? Your actions are Hyprocritical! If you truly do believe in evolution and its theory, why are you not accepting the fact that evolution has selected you for termination, because you no longer fit the criteria of “survival of the fittest”!

    What a pathetic antogonistic premise for a thread.

  • bohm
    bohm

    Hawk, how come your knock-out punch has the effect of making you seem like an asshole?

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    First my disclaimer. This thread is a “THEORY” since so many people love “The THEORY” and so as not to hurt feelings and insult anyone, this is only a “THEORY. ”

    I think you need to learn what a theory is.

    My personal observation is this, as long as you bash Watchtower all is ok. As soon as you try to present any resemblance of Christianity or any belief in the bible, such as the flood, you are personally bashed.

    Quite rightly too since a global flood as described in genesis is a scientific impossibility.

    There is a certain group of posters who like to cyber bully, by telling the poster *lost* in her thread, “You can do all the research you want, just don’t post it here.” This behavior is childish and needs to be stopped because this type of behavior not only is “bullying,” but it shuts down dialog, conversation and creativity.

    So your way of stamping out bullying is by trying to bully…….

    I made the poster Cofty change his post regarding his statement about biogeography and all marsupials evolved in Australia, (southern hemisphere) well, that did not set well with him, and the next post He said “Now let me tell you about the opossum”.

    Your question was far from thought provoking, yes Cofty forgot about the opossum but the existence of marsupials in North America are a result because of migration due to a combination of continental drift and the creation of the Andes which brought South America into contact with North America. This is not something that happened a few thousand years ago but approximately 3 million years ago. The result was that for the first time in 50 million years, North American species and South American species came into contact.

  • cofty
    cofty
    OK Cofty now for the KO punch. Tell me why, for a person who posted your current illness did you turn to the very people you look down upon for comfort? Your actions are Hyprocritical! If you truly do believe in evolution and its theory, why are you not accepting the fact that evolution has selected you for termination, because you no longer fit the criteria of “survival of the fittest”! The conflict is truly yours, in opposition to evolution you try to extend your life. This is a prime example of what you assert, to those who contend with you. “ Intellectual dishonesty”!

    I'm not personally hurt or offended by this comment, however it is without any shadow of doubt, the most stupid, ignorant, ill-informed thing I have EVER read anywhere on the internet.

    You don't understand the simplest thing about evolution and you certainly don't understand anything about me.

    I am going to refrain from making a personal remark in return since nothing I could say would ever come close to adequately expressing my contempt.

    I'm off out but I look forward to getting back to you later.

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