My doubting friend came by and left the letter...

by confusedandalone 33 Replies latest jw experiences

  • confusedandalone

    I hope that I am not eating up alot of bandwidth and annoying anyone. However as I make my exit I want to reveal as many things as possible. I have a friend who had doubts about the latest change and wrote a letter. I started a thread about this earlier last month. He stopped by and we talked this morning. He took out the letter again as he carries it in his bag. He is really twisted up over this. We spent hours discussing my situation and the issues he is having.

    He ACCIDENTALLY left the letter on my coffee table. I have scanned it and I will share it. I told him I wanted a copy and he said that was fine so I am not breaking any friendships over this. Notice the ridiculous response from the branch to very detailed questions :

    "First, you ask why Jehovah revealed the greater fulfillment of the prophecy in Daniel 4:10-17 about the "seven times" that would end in 1914 to Brother Russell if he was not part of "the faithful and discreet slave." (Matthew 24:45-47) As The Watchtower of July 15, 2013, (page 27, parugraphs 4 to 7) explained, "the faithful and discreet slave" is an entity that would only exist during Christ's presence. The group that included Brother Russell and his associates who studied the Scriptures to find the truth was like a forerunner of "the faithful and discreet slave." Although Jesus stated that "the faithful and discreet slave" would be used during the last days as a channel of spiritual food, it does not mean that Jehovah did not use other individuals and groups as channels of communication. For example, in the first century, Jehovah used the eight writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures and the governing body in Jerusalem as a channel of communication. (See paragraphs 7 to 11 on pages 16 and 18 of The Watchtower of July 15, 2013.) At the end of the first century, the apostle John was used to communicate many new things to the Christian congregation.-Revelation 1 :1."

    "Towards the end of the 19s century, Jehovah blessed the efforts of Brother Russell and his associates in their search for accurate knowledge because not only were they digging for truth but also they felt the need to share it with others. (Proverbs 2:l-6) For example, once they realized the significance of the year I9I4, they started to alert people to the fact that 1914 was a marked year. Insight on the Scriptures (Volume 1, page 135, paragraph 1) states in this regard: "It is a historical fact worth noting that . . . the March 1880 edition of the Watch Tower magazine identifred the year 1914 as the time for the close of 'the appointed times of the nations' (and the end of the lease of power granted the Gentile rulers). This was some 34 years before the arrival of that year and the momentous events it initiated. In the August 30,1914, edition of The World, a leading New York newspaper at that time, a feature article in the paper's Sunday magazine section commented on this as follows: 'The terrific war outbreak in Europe has fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy. For a quarter ofa century past, through preachers and through press, the "International Bible Students" . . . have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of Wrath prophesied in the Bible.would dawn in 1914."' So until the appearance of "the faithful and ^disdreet slave" in the 20th century, Jehovah coul, use faithful seriints according to his choosing to communicate information or spiritual food to his servants."

    "Second, you wonder whether the date 1914 as the year the Kingdom was established is reliable, since the information was not revealed directly to Brother Russell but he obtained the information from others. It is true that others calculated that the "seven times" that the stump of the symbolic tree in Nebuchanezzar's dream would be bound would end in 1914. The article "The Real Significance of 1974" in Awakel of November 8, 7994, stated in a footnote on page 10: "In 1844, a British clergyman, E. B. Elliott, drew attention to 1914 as a possible datg forthe end of the'seven times'of Daniel chapter4. In 1849, Robert Seeley, of London, dealt with the subject in like manner. Joseph Seiss, of the United States, pointed to 1914 as a significant date in Bible chronology in a publication edited about 1870. In 1875, Nelson H. Barbour wrote in his magazine Herald of the Morning that l9l4 marked the end of a period that Jesus called 'the appointed times of the nations.'-Luke 2l:24."

    Keep in mind that many of the doctrines that Brother Russell and his associates came to undt:rstand and accept as the truth were not necessarily unique. Others before them had reached the same conclusions from their study of the Bible. For example, Brother Russell and his associates were not the first to reject the Trinity or heiifire or to start using the name Jehovah. Over the centuries of the Common Era others believed the truth regarding these matters long before the Intemational Bible Students did. But since the time was right, Jehovah blessed the International Bible Students' search for truth and led them to discover more and more Bible truths so that they became a repository of accumulated Bible truths and, hence, ever more unique and different from the churches of Christendom. So the fact that others reahzed that 1914 was the end of the times of the nations does not make that date suspect. Bible prophecy clearly points to that year as the end of the "seven times," and world events since then confirm that the Kingdom was set up in that year.-Matthew, chapters 24 and 25;2 Timothy 3:1-5; Revelation, chapter 12."

  • Comatose

    Actually this is quite fantastic in that they admit and comment on all the points WE know. Most dubs would say that what we know about the early years is not true. This letter confirms it all. Amazing really.

  • confusedandalone

    @Comatose - EXACTLY!!! If you were to tell a DUB most of this stuff they would be irate

  • jhine

    Did Brother Russell reject the Trinity ? I thought that at least up to 195? Jesus was worshipped by the org .

    Thank you for posting this , I hope that your friend can sort this out in his own mind and see TTATT.

  • Calebs Airplane
    Calebs Airplane

    "First, you ask why Jehovah revealed the greater fulfillment of the prophecy in Daniel 4:10-17 about the "seven times" that would end in 1914 to Brother Russell if he was not part of "the faithful and discreet slave." (Matthew 24:45-47)

    If God revealed it to anyone (which he obviously did not), then "He" must have revealed it to John Aquila Brown in 1823 (not Russell in 1873)...

  • garyneal

    What a convoluted mess. So I guess the 1919 selection is now mute?

  • AndDontCallMeShirley

    Jehovah blessed the efforts of Brother Russell and his associates in their search for accurate knowledge

    Then why, according to WT's own admission, was the WT Society so full of "paganistic" and "Babylonish" practices and teachings, that by 1918 that Jesus allegedly had the WT leadership thrown in prison as a punishment? And, he released them from prison despite the fact they hadn't abandoned any of the things they were punished for yet "blessed" them anyway?

    Isn't it interesting how WT admits others were also on a correct path just like CT Russell, then in the same breath finds a way to marginalize those same individuals to the category of 'rejected by Jesus' in favor of Russell?

    Russell's only real advantage over his contemporaries is that he was rich and had enough money to out-spend his competition to get his message publicized. Had Russell been poor WT history would be much different today (read: non-existent).

  • confusedandalone

    The funny thing is every 20 years they can make some huge leap like this and no one will realize just how much they are hiding

  • Narcissistic Supply
    Narcissistic Supply

    I don't understand why j dubs are so hung up on technicalities.

    No Religion. My gosh man. No religion.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley

    I don't understand why j dubs are so hung up on technicalities.

    What technicalities are you referring to?

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