There Is No 'Heavenly Hope'!

by The Searcher 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  DATA-DOG

  According to the Bible, about all we can say is that the restoration of all things will take place. What does that mean? We can't say for sure, we don't know all the details. So we are wise not to be dogmatic about our personal musings. We don't know what would have happened once the Earth was filled. Would we then explore the Universe? Would we physically do so in ships? Or would be be able to travel via some spiritual method like astral projection? Who knows?

  Will a giant City/Craft come down from "heaven" and rule this planet? Could be. There is only one HOPE. Either we all go, or no one goes. That seems to make the most sense from a biblical standpoint. Sure, there may be some used in a special capacity as there are many abodes, but wouldn't we all be in the same place? I guess we will see. Also, what was Pauls vision of the 3rd heaven? Outer space?

  
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  Pterist

  @thesearcher **** If Adam had not sinned, what would be the outcome for every single human being on the earth? Everlasting life on a paradise earth - end of story - because that's exactly what Jehovah intended!******

  If mortality is not changed to immortality to adapt to the ETERNAL STATE of New Heavens and New Earth how will the "flesh and blood" mortal creatures survive when this entropic planet and universe dies ?
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  Pterist

  @thesearcher ** If Adam had not sinned, what would be the outcome for every single human being on the earth? Everlasting life on a paradise earth - end of story - because that's exactly what Jehovah intended!***

  Adam and Eve would have been transformed "changed" given suitable bodies for an immortal state. Jesus demonstrated this change in HIS transfiguration, as he put on mankind's intended glory.

  
  Adam and Eve were created mortal with conditional immortality IF they were to eat from the tree of Life aka Christ.......however, our road to glory as you said was preordained through Christ's death and resurrection....
  
  Ephesians 1:
  4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
  
  1 Corinthians 15:
  If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written:“The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.
  
  Romans 5:14
  Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come
  
  Hebrews 2:
  10 In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered. 11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.
  
  Shalom in Christ friend :)
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  leaving_quietly

  Interesting finds in Revelation:

  Rev 3:12: "“‘The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine."

  Rev 21:2,3: "I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.

  Rev 21:10: "So he carried me away in [the power of the] spirit to a great and lofty mountain, and he showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God"

  Just sayin'...
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  prologos

  @pterist:** Adam and Eve very created mortal---*** one of the shrewd observations put down in writing if one accepts that the first humans had those names.

  They were not different from the animals only higher in brain power.

  tree of life, and its future equivalent the second adam sacrifice are all speculations. not proven backed up by any verifyable happenings, except ideas in those more versatile brains, not superior, because bird and other brains work quit weell.

  There is no heavenly hope? not naturally.

  Is there any hope?

  I sure hope so.

  but I am not counting on it.
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  The Searcher

  @JWFACTS

  You said, " You have made up a doctrine based on what you want to believe, not based on anything that was actually written. To claim humans will live forever, and ever, and ever, and ever ... and then a bit more on this planet ... shows total ignorance as to how the universe operates."

  I didn't write Psalm 37:29 - "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it", but I believe it! I don't think I'm TOTALLY ignorant of the Bible's promises - especially the facts relating to his long term prospects on earth.

  I'm happy with that!
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  Vanderhoven7

  Obviously of the "other sheep" class.
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  slimboyfat

  Here is no hope full stop.
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  Pterist

  @TheSearcher ***** Psalm 37:29 - "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it*******

  As long as it lasts, maybe another 14 billion years, if a black hole does not consume it before that time.

  Hebrews 1:

  10 He also says,

  “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
  and the heavens are the work of your hands.
  11 They will perish, but you remain;
  they will all wear out like a garment.
  12 You will roll them up like a robe;
  like a garment they will be changed.

  Mortality needs to be changed to immortality, otherwise we need to kiss our derrieres goodbye ;)
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  Rose Mary

  “Bought back exactly what was lost!” Hence heavenly rulership for a limited few is ruled out.

  REALLY a wonderful thought! Because in essence, this thought outweighs all other verses and their interpretations—all because of the MEANING of the word: RANSOM!

  Terry This is the best I have read on the subject. What you said should actually end this subject!