Richard Ashe Court Deposition - " Let elders handle child abuse- don't talk about it " (page 2)

Vidiot

OnTheWayOut - "The old 'Pile on and contradict yourself' tactic..."

"We're not going broke, but hurry up and send us your f**king money, and stop saying we're going broke!"

DesirousOfChange

The most ridiculous thing I see in his comment is [speaking of the Rank & File publisher]:

They're not elders. They're not trained shepherds

As if elders are trained in anyway about handling the emotional trauma of child abuse. (Maybe trained to call HQ.)

Doc

Vidiot

Well, you gotta admit, training 'em to just call HQ is a lot easier.

DATA-DOG

Richard Ashe is correct about one thing. It's not in the best interests of anyone to go around talking about abuse if it hasn't been proven.

Before anyone gets mad, how would YOU like to be falsely accused of pedophilia and then have it spread like wildfire? It's like going to the top of a mountain and tossing a thousand feathers into the air, you will NEVER get them all back. That false claim can destroy a life, just like an DFing.

The problem lies in the legalistic attitude that has permeated the WTBTS. Then add to this what Terry pointed out, that the Elders are not trained at all. They are a bunch of Watchtards ( some are well meaning ) who's pavlovian response is to protect the "unity" of the "congregation."

The solution, IMO, ( IS TO BURN THE WTBTS TO THE GROUND ) is to instruct the Elders in an actual school and to have them pass background checks as individuals. Any prospective MS or Eldub should have to pass a background check. Then, if there is ever an allegation of abuse, trained Elders should try to help while simultaneously cooperating with local authorities.

The above will probably NEVER happen because the WTBTS leaders care more about saving face, than saving children. They view reform as an admission of guilt, and they fear exposure. They are not humble at all, despite their claims.

DD

jwleaks

Richard Ashe used the Straw man technique in his reply by the insertion and use of the word "indiscriminately".

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on false representation of an opponent's argument. To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.

This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.

Straw man

Retrovirus

From Ashe's deposition:

Richard Ashe continues in answering Zalkin, " But you try and help them ( child abuse victims ) to see that by talking about this with others indiscriminately , especially an allegation of child abuse that has not been proven or established by means of scriptural standard of evidence- may NOT be in the best interest of the person. .

jwleaks beat me by pointing out the strawman introduced by the word "indiscriminately". Still I'd like to add the introduction of "scriptual standard of evidence" - which I gather is a euphemism for the two witness rule - would mean that no victim should speak out unless the abuse was observed. Doesn't leave a victim with any options except suffering in silence for the reputation of the organization.

cha ching

Yes, it "may not be in your best interest " to talk about it....

meaning? "You might get DF'd if you do! Beware!"

truthseekeriam

This is the reason these child molesters feel comfortable attending meetings right along with some of their victims!! Most were elders themselves so they know darn well what happens to the victims in their families if they start talking about what has happened.

I could only imagine the added joy they (molesters) get knowing they have all the power! What this organization does to further the pain and trauma victims suffer is criminal!! They have so much to answer for.

OnTheWayOut

The solution, IMO, ( IS TO BURN THE WTBTS TO THE GROUND ) is to instruct the Elders in an actual school and to have them pass background checks as individuals. Any prospective MS or Eldub should have to pass a background check. Then, if there is ever an allegation of abuse, trained Elders should try to help while simultaneously cooperating with local authorities.

That's one way- but it will never happen. They would need millions to leave Watchtower in order to have enough elders for the remainder. But I like that.

Instead, I say: TREAT IT LIKE A CRIMINAL ACCUSATION LIKE MURDER. If little Suzy or Johnny says that Brother Chester killed someone, the elders are not going to handle it, they are not going to refrain from reporting to the police. If they think Suzy or Johnny is lying, they aren't going to just forget about their accusation. They can stand by the child without judging them and they can accompany them as they deal with this tragedy if that's what Suzy or Johnny wants. Turn it over to professional people and follow their lead. If the Watchtower wants to retain that rule about 2 witnesses, they don't have to disfellowship the guy if that's not present.

PokerPlayerPhil

Hi Flipper! Your correct, these unpaid liars unlike the paid ones (Circuit Overseers and above) told us "you can get disfellowshiped for gossiping if you share inside-information on Judicial Things, their dishonesty transcends only all embitterment they bring upon each member of the Kingdom Hall who can freely think! Great catch locating that little gem, JWs are so stupid(I've been out for a short period of time and I am calling them stupid(I was really stupid!) they will defend the Watchtower Organization and disown Jesus Christ if asked to do it! He perjured himself straight to Hell, still don't know if I believe in Hell but if it's real, it's reserved for liars like this!

"Richard Ashe replied, " It was encouraged that such individuals would talk to the shepherds of the congregation to get spiritual assistance . But to go out indiscriminately and talk about it with others, that's a PERSONAL DECISION they make. WE DON"T CONTROL INDIVIDUALS. " O.K. This is an out and out lie that he states here. Much evidence indicates that young JW child abuse victims HAVE been DFed in the past for telling others in the congregation that they were molested . Even JW family members of child abuse victims HAVE been DFed for talking about a child abuse situation within their congregations - so Ashe is lying when he claims that " no sanctions " are levied against child abuse victims or their families. " It HAS happened ."

Flipper

Richard Ashe Court Deposition - " Let elders handle child abuse- don't talk about it "

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