Serena Williams: teen rape victim 'lucky' (page 3)

Simon

It is the samething with the girl who was kiddnaped from a football game

I don't believe this was the case in this situation.

I think the best way to explain what I'm saying is to reverse it.

Would you bring a daughter up telling her that she can go to college parties and get drunk and that it would be totally safe and a sensible thing to do?

Of course not - if you did you'd be a bad parent and if you didn't teach her the opposite you'd be a bad parent so WHY after a rape do we suddenly need to switch off all common sense?

From the sounds of things it appears that some fault lies with those who put people in the situation where they are worshipped and idolised and there is an untouchable, old-boy network setup. Given all that happened, did none of the people involved have reputations beforehand? I struggle to believe a bunch of clean-cut kids suddenly turn into monsters. They were likely already monsters who got away with lots of bad behavior and pushed their boundaries a little bit further.

There was a great article I read in response to this about a guy and how he brought his sons up - definitely a good read, I'll try and find it.

Simon

This is a very good read:

http://www.askmoxie.org/2013/03/a-letter-to-my-sons-about-stopping-rape.html

I would add that I think everyone in society has a responsibility to not contribute to creating these groups of worshipped / excused scum. Just because someone is good at some sport doesn't mean they should not be respectful and a decent person and maybe, just maybe, we should put less focus on the former and more on the latter. A town having a winning team should be way down on the list of priorities. We shouldn't treat the athlete as the cool kid who gets to do whatever they want or behave however they want but unfortunately, this is the structure that society is creating where stars and celebrities get different standards to live up (or down) to.

The fact that there was no one williing to step in or say something or report it is appalling and a terrible indictment on the people who committed the act, those who watched and all those who associated with them. I think the school team should be disbanded and banned from participating in the sport. Harsh? Sure ... make them pariahs. Make anyone who does this detested and hated like they should be. Make anyone who picks people of such low character to be on their team seem like an idiotic ass.

I don't believe this was a sudden change of character. It sounds like there were endemic issues with attitudes and behavior prior to this happening.

Unless we make changes, nothing will improve.

I don't think saying "it's unwise to make bad choices or to get blind drunk in the company of such people" is really excusing anything or contributing to the problem though.

Tater-T

How do you know she intended to get that drunk? Thats the thing about young people when they drink, and old ones too..

I'm sure at her age she had know idea alcohol could get you that mess up... I'm positive she didn't set out to lose her memory of the night..

Rape is Rape whether the person is unconscience or conscience... to say she should have know better is rediculous... she got sick from alcohol poisoning..everyone should have take care of her.. not violated her..

If she came down with a sudden fever, became delirious.. would anyone have raped her?

she got sick from alcohol .. whether intentional or unintentional.. no one should be violated, because they are helpless at some point..

I'm trying to decide which is sicker raping a girl who can fight back or one that can't....

You can only blame the RAPIST...period

OnTheWayOut

Tater-T is right. You can contribute to your avoiding situations, but you cannot say it's not the rapist's fault to some degree because the victim was "asking for it" in some way- dress, behaviour, alcohol consumption, etc.

Applying what Serena said to another situation, if you allow your child to attend meetings at the Kingdom Hall and go out in field recruiting, you should be held accountable for that because the Kingdom Hall is a place where pedofiles are protected.

Really, all you have to do to see how silly such things are is switch "rape" with "murder." They are both serious crimes and nobody in their right mind gives murderers a pass because of the dress or alcohol consumption of the victim.

Simon

Tater-T is right. You can contribute to your avoiding situations, but you cannot say it's not the rapist's fault to some degree because the victim was "asking for it" in some way- dress, behaviour, alcohol consumption, etc.

Exactly. One contributes to an increased risk factor, one is the actual cause. They are different and I'm not saying they are the same. But while rightly laying blame and responsibility with the ones who cause it, we shouldn't send the message that poor choices can't contribute to an increased risk.

I think this is a bad message to be sending.

There are plenty who have posted abhorent attitudes that totally try to excuse the crime and genuinely blame the victim. This media hype focusing on the wrong expressions IMO lets those people off the hook as though it's all the same, it isn't by a long long shot.

Angharad

You can contribute to your avoiding situations but you cannot say it's not the rapist's fault to some degree because the victim was "asking for it" in some way- dress, behaviour, alcohol consumption, etc

I don't see anyone saying it's not the rapist's fault or that the victim was asking for it or that she deserved what happened to her . As Paralipomenon said, calling stupid behavior stupid does not mean you are blaming the victim. The people involved in the attack should be punished and held accountable for their actions (that includes the people that filmed the attack and shared the pictures but did nothing to stop it) and the girl given all the help she needs to get over this.

Getting back to the article though - Does anyone honestly think Serena Williams is saying this girl was lucky she was raped - it is obvious what she means, it could have ended even more tragically and she could have been dead. She's not condoning the rape, only stating that there are sometimes huge consequences for foolish behavior and making poor choices.

Simon

All the people making the genuine 'rape excusing comments' get to hide behind foolish articles like this that are solely concerned with selling some trashy mag and not contributing to society.

It's sickening that a whole chorus of people act outraged and yet are silent about the abhorent comments and attitudes expressed elsewhere by others.

LisaRose

Binge drinking is a big problem on College campuses lately. The fact that getting drunk on a regular basis is now acceptable (even expected) behavior is also part of the problem. I think parents and colleges who turn a blind eye to the issue are contributing to the problem. I do not believe saying that young women should exercise reasonable precautions and avoid getting drunk is blaming the victim, it's just a fact of modern day life. She did an unwise thing, they uncommitted multiple criminal acts with depraved indifference to the consequences. Her behavior does not excuse theirs in any way shape or form. That is not blaming the victim, just stating stating the facts.

Marvin Shilmer

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I haven’t read Williams’ statement and don’t care to spend time reading celebrity “news.”

But on the subject of personal choice and harm I’ll say this:

Choices represent risk. Willful choices that increase our risk increases our culpability for associated harm we experience as a result of those choices. This is only to say each of us is responsible for our actions, which includes choices we make about how we choose to present ourselves to the world around us, where we spend our time and/or who we spend our time with. If I opt to spend my time with people I know are violent and involved in criminal activity and I get wounded in a crossfire, I bear a ("a" not "the") responsibility for that consequence. That does not minimize, shift or lessen the culpability of whoever fired the shot that wounded me. It only means I bear responsibility for my own choice.

Not too long ago there was a stream of advertisements on American television of men and women running through rural African landscapes clothed in raw meat. Guess what? Tigers were chasing them because those tigers saw their next victim, and those tigers were looking for a victim. A tiger is always going to be a tiger. We can count on that. In the human world criminals are always going to be criminals. We can count on that too. Men and women running around dressed in raw meat does not make a criminal any less a criminal, and no one should blame a victim for criminal activity. But each of us is responsible for voluntary choices that increase our risk.

Had Lady Gaga’s choice to cloth herself with meat at the 2010 MTV Video Music Awards resulted in a tiger assaulting her at those awards I’d say she bore no responsibility for the consequence.

Had Lady Gaga chose to cloth herself with meat while strolling through the free range sanctuary of South Africa with result of a tiger assaulting her I’d say she bore responsibility for the consequence.

Marvin Shilmer

Tater-T

I don't know, maybe she wasn't a virgin, but she shouldn't have put herself in that position.

two things about this statement one... what would being a virgin or not have to do with anything !!!! ( I find find this the most appaulling) two... she put her self in the same postion everyone else was in .. that is being at a party where there was alcohol.... despite this and all the warnings and advice from parents, teens will continue to find ways to get alcohol... It amazes me that all the focus is on her... how to teach young women to avoid risk .. instead of, this is a lesson to teach young men to behave like real gentlemen but I understand your risk management arguments... If you leave your keys in your car it's more likely to get stolen.. I'm done here wanted to make a comment on the comment in question ..

Serena Williams: teen rape victim 'lucky'

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