by jerome 41 Replies latest jw experiences
Jerome,
I don't think a discussion of cults and mind control will even dent their armor. They will just give you a blank stare, as if you are crazy. I still think that some typed out quotes or zeroxed copies if you can get them, regarding one subject, say, 1975, would have more impact.
larc
I have the four main Watchtwer photocopies about 1975 still here with me.
The one where Generation means life span
The one with the train
The one with the chart showing 6000 years of human existence ends in 75
And some other I cant remember right now.
False prophesy wouldent make a dent in them. I mentioned it before and they just dismissed it. Either that or they lied. One or the other.
What am I supposed to do then. Mabe if you explain abit more why I shouldent go in to the basics of the psychology behind it, from your expert perspective then i would better understand.
But in my limited experience, cognitive dissonance always kicks in.
When you show them something irrefutable, they come back and tell you thanks for making my faith stronger. Like my gf did at one point.
I wouldent mind hearing why you think I shouldent go into it though.
But here is the situation as it is.
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At the end of our discussion I started to mention Churches like Scientology and The Moonies, and even the Mormans, and showed them that they were taling up a large percentage of new converts.
I also mentioned Jonestown and Heavens gate.
At first they wanted just dismiss them as silly people who were stupid enough to follow some guy claming to be the Massiah or something and dident think much of it.
But when I started to tell that people have begun to study this phenomeon and there was a scientific explanition why people get involved with those kind of groups, they showed more intrest.
They could have been just patronizing me though, i'm not too shure.
I know for shure that arguring the bible with them will make absolutely no sense because when I asked them to rationalize the fact that jesus is a god in light of Isaih 43:10-11, they dident even blink.
On the topic of false prophesy they dont really care if it werent true.
But what did make an impact was the thought of the presense starting in 1874 instead of 1914.
The female is the more mature witness and I think that she runs the show with reguards to public speaking.
The guy is more heruistic (sp?) in in his thought processes. i picked this up early in the conversation. He dosent really like to think.
I noticed that when i asked him if he was happy as a witness that he took about 30-45's to anwser the question.
It was only when I asked him if he was more happy now than he was before he was a witness thathe said yes.
The guy is the weak link.
But the woman is taking the lead in the discussion so i have to figure out a way to close in on the guys emotions while distracting the woman with arguments since shes more systamatic.
If you nee any more characteristics to make a better assessment of the situation just shoot.
jerome
The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.
The witnesses are coming to your door sunday-----HAHA--
HAHA
Jerome,
I just gave you what I thought might increase your odds of getting through to them. My opinion, however, is that nothing will work. Their mind is made up. They don't want to be confused with facts.
HAHA rigth back at ya!
Honestly larc
I know the Witness situation is pratically hopeless but really what are you doing about it?
In my neighbour hood I see them at least every month and a half!
I live in a 3rd world country so their rate of growth here ma be alot higher than in the US. But I think that somebody has to do something.
I talked to my uncle that was a pastor and he dident have a clue how to handle the JW situation. It really is becoming a problem. No body seems to realize.
But there is one thing that I think will soon curve their growth.
Many people here have the inet. So that has got to have an affect on them sooner or later.
But I see myself as being in an informed situation so i have to do something. So I will take every oppertunity avalible to spek to whom ever JW that wishes to discuss religion with me.
You always sound so pesamistic when you describe the situation that cant be productive. I know that there is a manner of realism involved but I donot think that once I can get any Witness to listen it is impossible.
So what do you suggest that I do? Just stand there and whact when I know better?
jerome
Im just trying to do my part.
I see a problem developing and I think I can be a part of the solution.
The same way that many of you have witness proffed alot of your relative and your neighbours I think that I can do the same.
It makes no sence to me ignoring the problem and then hoping that will go away, if everybody had that attitude then sites like freeminds wouldent even exist. Everybody in a position to do something should do so.
It is very unlike me to abandon somebody as a lost cause especially when I have the knowledge that I have now. All I can do is keep trying.
jerome
Jerome,
I am not trying to be pessimistic. I am trying to be realistic. Give it your best shot, and more power to you. You are young and you are a young warrier. I am an old warriar and I am not in the fight any more. I will give you opinions, which you can accept or reject, but is still up to you as to what you will do.
Two recent WT arcticles (which should be easy to bring up) may help you to directly and quickly separate the witnesses faith in God from their faith in the organization. This may be more effective in the limited amount of time that you have with them rather than an indirect "mind control" approach, which I believe may require more time than which you will have. Just as us Christains faith in the Bible and in God are inseparable, so the witnesses faith in God and the organization become blended. These two arcticles may help you to help them to separate their faith in God from faith in the WT, thus allowing them to still keep faith and security when you later bring up damaging information.
The WT 2-01-1996 p. 23 makes doubting the organization the same as doubting God and his Word.
Ask "Is doubting an organization the same as doubting God and his word?"
Ask "If hypothetically you for some reason lost faith in the WT Org. would you still have faith in God and his word? Give examples of people in other organizations who although they lost faith in their particular religion STILL kept their faith in God and the Bible.
The WT 3-15-1996 p. 16,17 makes loyalty to the organization more important than loyalty to God's word.
Ask "Should we put loyalty to a religious organization ABOVE loyalty to GOd's word?"
Don't argue whether or not God has an an organization but whether or not loyalty to God's word should be placed above organizational loyalty? Use Jesus's words about putting God's word above mans.
Be sure to pray and above all else follow the Holy Spirit's leading.
