Witnesses are coming to my door Sunday!

by jerome 41 Replies latest jw experiences

  • seedy3
    seedy3

    Jerome,

    The last time the JW's came to my door the discussion came up about 1914, I found it interesting that they had a hard time telling me how that date was arrived at, but said they would come back to discuss it further. I tried to keep it on one subject and not run between subjects, if they could not answer the Q, I asked them to return with the answer. I informed them that their date of 1914 was based on the idea that Jerusalem fell in 607 bce, yet by all historical accounts it didn't fall or become desolate until 586/7, even Nebacanezzer(I can never spell that name right) was not the king of Babylon until 603/4 so how could he have distroyed the city as king yet he was not the king. They knew that the 1914 was based on 607 with a lot of math and scripture flip flopping to get that date, but they couldn't remember exactly how it was done. SO, I am waiting for them to come back, then I hit them with the original way they came to the date (i.e. the pyrimids and such) then go from there on how it was changed when the rapture and earths distruction didn't happen in 1914.

    So I like you, am waiting to see if they show up, becasue he said he had proof that it was destroyed in 607, and I told him I would love to see it.

    For me it's all fun in gettng them flustered and making them think.

    Seedy

  • DevonMcBride
    DevonMcBride

    Below is a link to some great questions to open their minds.

    http://www.freeminds.org/psych/openmind.htm

    Hope this helps,
    Devon

  • jerome
    jerome

    What are the odds of them leaving my place after listening to what I have to say, shake my hand and give me a smile then go spreading vicious rumours about me?

    jerome

  • NewLight2
    NewLight2
    What are the odds of them leaving my place after listening to what I have to say, shake my hand and give me a smile then go spreading vicious rumours about me?
    jerome

    Ask them to study the "Trinity booklet" with you. Tell them that you read it on the WT's Official Web Site and then begin to bring up all the half quotes that they have used. Tell them that you have looked up the source material using the library and have found these "mistakes". If you get them to study with you - you will have time to request this material from InterLibrary Loan service (known as I.L.L. Service to the libraians) and make your own copies. That way THEY are the ones who have to do the " 'splaining " to you.

    Trinity Booklet:
    http://watchtower.org/library/ti/start.htm

  • zanex
    zanex

    jerome: the odds of them coming over, listening to what u have to say shaking your hand, leaving and then spreading vicious rumors around is quite high in my opinion...fuck em...but thats just the angry, hostile side of me taklin ;)

  • trudy
    trudy

    Dear brother Jerome,
    I try not to attack the organization when talking to the
    Jehovah's Witness members. It defeats our purpose.
    They shut out anything we have to say because in the
    minds of a Jehovah's witness, you are attacking their'
    faith, even though they claim to put faith in Jesus and
    his Father, Jehovah. But in reality, their faith is in
    every word the organization, of a few men in NewYork,have
    to say. They are trained to not put their trust in God's
    word, the Bible, nor in these words God himself spoke.
    (John 14:14) "Ask anything in my name and I will do it."
    and (John 16:23)"Most truly I say to you, if you ask the
    Father for anything he will give it to you, in my name."

    You might aske them,
    Have you, personally, asked God, in prayer, for the Truth?
    Do we go to men for it or do we go to God for truth? Do we
    rely upon him?
    Do we trust him or put our trust in men's teachings?
    If we listen to men, do we compare what the sciptures say to
    their teachings, making an examination to see if it is from
    God? If we find a problem with their teachings, do we stay
    quiet and continue teaching others things which are not true
    just so we can stay within a religious organization?
    Remember, Christ said, "if you are ashamed of me I will be
    ashamed of you." (Luke 9:26)
    Christ told us to eat his flesh and his blood, are we afraid
    to do what he instructed us because of fear or what others may
    think of us? What right has anyone who has shut up the kingdom
    of the heavens? Only God through Christ has the key and can open
    and shut that door! Who are these handful of men who dare teach
    a contrary doctrine?
    Remember, Christ said,"Keep holding fast what you have that no
    one may take your crown."
    What did the Christians have? Allow me to ask you this in another
    way, "What was the true Kingdom message the Christians received
    and taught before the Watchtower Society came into existance?
    Do you know?
    You will find a different kingdom message. And you will find
    while studying the scriptures there is only one Christian,
    not two classes of Christians. Christ nor the Apostles mentioned
    nothing of a Jonadab class, or earthly class in their teachings.
    There is only one class, a heavenly one! Anytime Paul talked about
    earthy or earthly things, it had to do with sinful inclinations
    originating with Adam's bloodline. But the heavenly things pertained to righteousness, to God's thoughts on matters. After all, our treasures are said to be in heaven with God, in other words, what we do with our life while on this earth, is recorded in heaven with God
    to insure our future life.
    Ask Jw's to search through Matt thru Rev. to see if Christ,
    or any of his Apostles ever taught two different hopes, one living
    in heaven and one living upon the earth. I believe the one hope is'
    living on the earth! While bringing knowledge to those resurrected,
    who never had accurate knowledge of God nor of his will and judging
    the men who allowed Satan to deceive them.
    Notice what the book of Revelation 3:20)
    "Look! I am standing at the door and knocking. If ANYONE opens
    the door, I will come into his [house)and take the evening meal
    with him and he with me. To the one that conquers, I will grant
    to sit down with me on my throne, even as I conquered and sat
    down with my Father on his throne."
    "let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the
    congregation."
    Do we really listen? Do we want to conquer Satan and his evil
    designs? If we do not conquer, then we will face judgement.
    And if we lose in this race Aposle Paul talked about, then we are
    noting but a loser, not a winner. Who told us we could not
    conquer? That the winners were already picked? So why bother to
    run this race? Is your answer the 'faithful and discreet slave class?
    If so, then they are not faithful to God's word. His invitation is to
    Anyone who wishes to conguer and receive the reward, the crown of life.

    Jesus Christ said this in prayer to his father concerning
    us. (John 17:20)
    "I make request, not concerning these only (the 12 disciples)
    but also concerning those putting faith in me through their
    word;"
    Ok, he says, also those putting faith in me through their word!
    Do we not have the gospel accounts of Matt. Mark Luke John and
    all the letters written by Apostle Paul, Peter, James etc?
    He goes further to say, "in order that they may all be one,
    just as you, Father are in union with me and I am in union
    with you, that they also may be ALL be one, just as you,
    Father are in union with me and I am in union with you, that
    they also may be in union with us
    in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth."
    see (1 John 5:14)"we ask according to his will"

    Don't allow anyone to tell you "the Bible is not for you to
    privately interpret! Of course we cannot privately interpret
    without God's holy spirit to teach us! We don't have to rely upon
    men to tell us what we must believe! Didn't the Catholic Popel
    system control the minds and beliefs of the people? Causing the
    notorious dark age?
    We go to God for Truth! We trust him to teach us. It is vital
    that we must believe he answeres our prayers!
    The elders came to my house, parroting the Organizations words, not
    really knowing they were teaching lies. They told me I could never
    be one of Christ's brothers (nor sister)
    How can they say that? They must not have read
    "For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is the same as
    my brother, and sister and mother."(Matt. 12:50)

    All the years as a Jehovah's Witness I was told I was doing God's
    will. After all, wasn't I preaching God's kingdom?
    Wasn't I putting away bad practices of the world? So how can they
    tell me I could never be a brother (sister) of Christ?
    Something was terribly wrong with their teachings! These men were
    making divisions, Christ is divided within the organization!
    That is when I began to read the gospels very carefully, examining
    every word and using my reference Bible, also the Kingdom Interlinear
    of the Greek scriptures as well a good concordance.
    I recommend that all truth searchers do the same.
    Jesus said,"If ANYONE is thirsty (for truth) let him come to - -
    pick one>>>>(the organization) or (to me, Christ,)and drink."
    (John 7:37)
    Who do you choose?
    ( John 8:12)Jesus said," I am the light of the world, he that follows
    me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of
    life."
    Jesus said,(Rev. 2:25)"just the same, hold fast what you have until
    I come."
    What truths did they have? Evidently what they have is enough to
    please God until he comes!
    So I made a careful seach of what the early Christians had that they
    were told to hold fast to until Christ comes.
    And that is how I found the Truth. First I went to God in prayer,then
    made a careful search, trusting in God's word and relying on him
    to answer my prayers.
    I found too, that Christ's sheep follow him no matter where he goes.
    The scriptures say he suffered outside the camp. He was considered
    an apostate to the Jewish relgion and those Christians who defended
    Apostle Paul were cast out of the congregations by the 'superfine'
    apostles who envied Paul and were finding fault with him.
    And Job, he was accused of being an apostate by his so called friends.
    So, I gladly accepted being dispised and looked down upon by my
    Jehovah's witness associates. I do all things for Christ's sake.
    I know it is safer for me to obey God when he commands me to
    listen to his son. And so Jesus told me to eat his bread and drink
    his blood, if I do not do this, I simply will not have everlasting
    life. I must conquer all the fire and missles directed toward me.
    I must conguer Satan to be given my crown of life and the glory of
    doing his will. I find every opportunity to recommend the same
    to my brothers and sisters who do everything Christ instructs
    with the exception of eating the bread and wine.
    He said, 'unless you do this, you will not have life.'
    It seems things are turned around. In the beginning, Satan said,
    'do eat' and now he instructs, 'do not eat'
    who do we listen to, Christ and his Father, or doctrines of men?
    (Revelation 3:3) Christ said,"However, continue mindful of how you
    have recieved and how you heard and go on keeping it, and repent,
    Certainly unless you wake up I shall come as a thief and you will
    not know at what hour I shall come."
    How did the early Christians recieve and how had they heard?
    Does the organization teach the same things? Does the average
    Jehovah's witness really know?
    Christ does not shut that door until he comes! And he hasn't come
    yet, why else would we still have the Lord's Evening meal observance.
    He said, "Keep doing this until I come."
    And he also said, "Look! I am coming quickly and the reward I give
    is with me, to render each one according to his work." (Rev. 22:12)

    So what better reward than everlasting life! And it comes with him
    when he arrives, to render each one according to his work.'
    Do we work righteousness or wickedness?
    I truly wonder why the organization teaches the resurrection has
    already has taken place before he comes. For they teach that the
    'so called' annointed are already resurrected as soon as they die.
    How can this be so when Christ has not come! He has not come to
    distribute the reward of life.(see John 11: 25)
    Look what is said at (2 Tim. 2:18)
    "These very men have diviated from the truth, saying the resurrection
    has already occurred and they are subverting the faith of some."

    Apostle Paul said,"Keep holding the pattern of healthful words that
    you heard from me with the faith and love that are in connection
    with Christ Jesus. This fine trust guard through the holy spirit
    which is dwelling in us." ( 2 tim. 1:13)
    And his words ring true of a follower of Christ when he said,"But
    you have closely followed my teaching, my course of life, my purpose,
    my faith, my long-suffering, my love, my endurance, my persecutions,'
    my sufferings," (2 tim. 3:10-12)"In fact, all those desiring to live
    godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be
    persecuted, but the wicked men and impostors will advance from bad
    to worse, misleading and being mislead." (2 Tim. 3:13)

    (2 tim.3:14)"You, however, continue in the things you learned
    and were persuaded to believe, knowing from what persons you learned
    them, and from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are
    able to make you wise for salvation through the faith in connection
    with Christ JEsus. All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial'
    for teaching, for reproving for setting things straight, for
    disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully
    equipt for every good work."
    And don't let anyone tell you the Bible is not for you
    'to privatley interpret!'
    This attempt is to deprive you of the Power which Christ gives to
    all those loving him and who obey all his commandments.

    I apologize for making such long posts, but I have much to say
    in defence of the Truth in Christ. (not the so called truth in the
    org.)
    Love to all Christ's brothers in the faith,

    Trudy

  • alazenby
    alazenby

    I have copies of all the WTs and other lit explaining the "truth" about 1914 and then all the changes as they went along, if you want a photostat of my copies, just e-mail me, and I also have instructions on how to use this information, their own, to show them the real TRUTH of how it changed all along and can't be relied upon. [email protected]

  • alazenby
    alazenby

    I just went to watchman.org and went to witnessing to JWs and this URL has the listings of the articles you can use, and if you want copies e-mail me, and maybe I can fax them to you or scan and e-mail them. alazenby
    http://www.watchman.org/jw/1914hst2.htm

    ABOUT 1914, ET CETERA

  • jerome
    jerome

    Thanks for the offer but i dont think that that will help.

    In a while you will realize that you have to do alot before you pull out the old watchtowers.

    A witnesses does not handle information the way a normal person does.

    If I were to go and bring out my big bag of apostate goodies i would never see them a gain.

    I dont argue the bible either. The witnesses are way too proud of their NWT and even when things are bluntly obvious and contradict themselves they push it to the back of their minds. You cant do anthing with a witness untill you teach them how to think normally.

    I'm preparing for them if they decide to come back though. I'm sprucing up my psychology and sociology so that i can explain to them what mind controll is.

    jerome

    Even though I wouldent exactly want to use your info if they decide to come back i wouldent mind new teaching aids so i think i'll take you up on your offer and e-mail you. Thanks.

    Oh BTW I think playing 'Witnesses of Jehovah' would be a VEEEEry bad idea unless I want to see tham again.

    The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.

  • alazenby
    alazenby

    Of course, I would nevef show any apostate lit, but this is WT lit many have not seen, and maybe just mentioning it and offering the references they could ask for it at their library or WT HQ, huh? Yeah, I have a copy of the Witnesses video, and also one on Mormons, which is very very insidiously evil -- but my daughter would never even look at either one, and she has been apart from us for 13 years and now divorcing one of the other Witnesses. Will she be the one to be DF'd? Most tell me she will be, even though it was mutual feeling. She won't even talk to me even though I have breast cancer and she works in the breast cancer program. Ain't that a hoot, loves everyone else, even strangers, more than me -- and we BOTH can't be right if we are opposite poles on who Jesus is, just like you can't be male and female at the same time and be right if she says I'm male, and says it's OK to differ -- one has to be a liar, and must WANT the other one to be in the right, huh? Oh, well, so much for psychology. Hey, I have a great book was recommended to me on logic and argument, and I'll go look for the name of it, doesn't mention any particular group, but how logic such as mutual exclusivity works, like the male and female thing -- can't both be right on same person -- can't be pregnant and not pregnant at the same time, huh? Alice

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