Questions about the Flood for Brother Jeramy
we have a winner!!!!!! Asteroids came from the flood!!!!! Thank you ladies and gents, im officially checking out of this conversation
Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland .
"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
How many inches per hour of global rainfall for 40 days and nights would it take to cover Mr.Everest?
Mt. Everest is roughly 36,000 feet above sea level, so how much rain would it take to cover it in 40 24-hour periods?
Making the computation and demonstrating how it is done:
volume of water on earth:
circumference of earth:
radius of earth: 4,621 (thousand)
radius of earth plus everest: 4,626 (thousand)
current volume of Earth planetoid: 413,345,707,226 (billion)
volume 1 foot over everest: 414,823,360,582 (billion)
volume of water required to fill between current Earth planetoid circumference to height of mt everest: 1,477,653,356 cubic miles (trillion)
Surface area of Earth: 26,8344,735 sq mi (million)
Surface area of water over Everest: 268,983,885 sq mi (million)
Now, volume divided by surface area will be the depth:
(1477653356.1417 cubic miles / 268664310 sq mi) = 5.4999987015085851931728483027761 miles, or348,479.9 inches
We would need a steady rain of:
348,479 inches over 960 hours, or 363 inches per hour to cover Mt.Everest
So once the ground was saturated and no place left for the water to flow down to, you'd be covered by 6 feet of water within 12 minutes.
J A Paulos book: Innumeracy
The book of Genesis says of the Flood that "...all the high hills that were under the whole heaven were covered..." Taken literally, this seems to indicate that there were 10,000 to 20,000 feet of water on the surface of the Earth, equivalent to more than half a billion cubic miles of liquid! Since, according to biblical accounts, it rained for forty days and forty nights, or for only 960 hours, the rain must have fallen at a rate of at least fifteen feet per hour, certainly enough to sink any aircraft carrier, much less an ark with thousands of animals on board.
What World View-belief system did the writer of Noah and the ark have?**
Apply facts of physics to the story
If a canopy holding the equivalent to more than 40 feet of water were part of the atmosphere, it would raise the atmospheric pressure accordingly, raising oxygen and nitrogen levels to toxic levels.
If the canopy began as vapor, any water from it would be superheated. This scenario essentially starts with most of the Flood waters boiled off. Noah and company would be poached. If the water began as ice in orbit, the gravitational potential energy would likewise raise the temperature past boiling.
A canopy of any significant thickness would have blocked a great deal of light, lowering the temperature of the earth greatly before the Flood.
Any water above the ozone layer would not be shielded from ultraviolet light, and the light would break apart the water molecules.
Why is there no evidence of a flood in tree ring dating? Tree ring records go back more than 10,000 years, with no evidence of a catastrophe during that time. [Becker & Kromer, 1993; Becker et al, 1991; Stuiver et al, 1986]
Why is there no mention of the Flood in the records of Egyptian or Mesopotamian civilizations which existed at the time? Biblical dates (I Kings 6:1, Gal 3:17, various generation lengths given in Genesis) place the Flood 1300 years before Solomon began the first temple.
We can construct reliable chronologies for near Eastern history, particularly for Egypt, from many kinds of records from the literate cultures in the near East. These records are independent of, but supported by, dating methods such as dendrochronology and carbon-14. The building of the first temple can be dated to 950 B.C. +/- some small delta, placing the Flood around 2250 B.C.
Unfortunately, the Egyptians (among others) have written records dating well back before 2250 B.C. (the Great Pyramid, for example dates to the 26th century B.C., 300 years before the Biblical date for the Flood). No sign in Egyptian inscriptions of this global flood around 2250 B.C.
Questions raised: Population rise
How did the human population rebound so fast? Genealogies in Genesis put the Tower of Babel about 110 to 150 years after the Flood [Gen 10:25, 11:10-19]. How did the world population regrow so fast to make its construction (and the city around it) possible? Similarly, there would have been very few people around to build Stonehenge and the Pyramids, rebuild the Sumerian and Indus Valley civilizations, populate the Americas, etc.
Why do other flood myths vary so greatly from the Genesis account? Flood myths are fairly common worldwide, and if they came from a common source, we should expect similarities in most of them. Instead, the myths show great diversity. [Bailey, 1989, pp. 5-10; Isaak, 1997] For example, people survive on high land or trees in the myths about as often as on boats or rafts, and no other flood myth includes a covenant not to destroy all life again.
Why should we expect Genesis to be accurate? We know that other people's sacred stories change over time [Baaren, 1972] and that changes to the Genesis Flood story have occurred in later traditions [Ginzberg, 1909; Utley, 1961]. Is it not reasonable to assume that changes occurred between the story's origin and its being written down in its present form?
Hebrew cosmology (http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/ThreeTieredUniverse.htm) should be made to understand why the authors of Genesis considered the Flood possible. Above the flat earth there was a dome, called the firmament, to which the stars were attached and within which the sun and moon moved about. Above the firmament are the waters mentioned in Genesis 1:2 ('the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters'). This structure is also mentioned in Genesis 1:6-7. The firmament is perforated by 'the floodgates of heaven' (Genesis 7:11, 8:2). The Flood is caused by these floodgates being opened, and a rising-up of the waters beneath the earth (Genesis 1:6-7 and 7:11 again). This cosmology suggests that there is a very large amount of water available outside the firmament and beneath the Earth for use in the flood. In this cosmology, it is not hard to imagine how rainfall on the order of 800 cm/hour would be possible.
Unfortunately, the Hebrew mythology is not consistent with empirical observation. Creationists and flood catastrophists thus must resort to 'vapor canopies'.
If we assume that girls start having babies at 15, and have one a year until they're 65, each girl has 50 babies. If half the babies are female, and everyone lives 200 years on average, it may be possible to reach a million people in the times required.
According to the Bible, Noah's sons had 14 sons themselves, so we can assume they also had 14 daughters. If we start with 10 reproducing men and 10 reproducing women 30 years after the flood, in another 50 years we could have 500 (250 men, 250 women). 50 years after that, there could be at least 20,000, which could swell to close to half a million in another 50 years. At this point, some of the "originals" start to die off, and life expectancies start to drop, to the newly-mandated 120 years, so the rate of growth may slow. Still, it shouldn't take more than a few centuries to have several million people available, which is all you need for the pyramid stories.
Global Flood - 2500 to 2300BC
Tower of Babel destroyed - 1928BC
Egypt Exodus - 1447BC
So that makes 372 to 572 years from the Flood to Babel tower :10 million people in roughly 600 years
Look into the Grand Canyon. There's a mile of sediment from the flood.
The Grand Canyon is only 4000 years old!
Praise Jesus! I have seen the light!
By the way, a good theory allows one to make predictions. Predictions concerning the "tiny dust balls, no bigger than a marble" that were going to be found on that comet they just landed on proved way off. Only one one scientist predicted actual rounded boulders as likely: Walt Brown. 13 years ago.
Laugh all you want, his crazy theory is being confirmed constantly. He's made around 40 predictions. 5 are confirmed, the rest pending. And yet, he's just a dumb young earth creationist. Well, if it makes you feel any better he was an evolutionists until 1972. But then he smartened up.
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Please read The Rocks Don't Lie by David R. Montgomery.
Mr. Montgomery is a Geologist. The first part of the book is a walk through of the Grand Canyon explaining all the layers, how they were lay down, and when.
There is NO evidence, and absolutely no possibility that a global flood ever inundated the Earth in the manner described in the bible. There is not enough water for one, and the Vapor Canopy has been vaporized by logic and evidence in other threads.
Crack a book not written by a cult every now and again. It's quite refreshing.
WHY do people still believe in the Bible. From the opening book
to the last, story after story just falls apart.LOL
If the Bible is all true, Lucifer is doing a hell of a job in screwing with
our minds, God can not blame us you created him.
Walt Brown is not in a cult so to speak. He's a retired Phd and this is THEORY I think Floodguy even met with him last year. Anyhow it's a fun read and his book is packed with scientific knowledge other than just the flood. I'll buy the book for myself this summer for vacation reading material.
MIT Mlitary Graduate :
Floodguy - Stop it. You must be trolling, nobody can be that ignorant of the facts.
Floodguy... so... where did said water then...disappear to?
And finkelstein he does have a salt shaker. But I don't think it had salt in it.