It hit the fan

by truthseeker1 51 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge

    Tweetie Bird:

    After reading the history of the organization and comparing it to other organizations, i.e. Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, Church of Scientology, etc. I realized that Charles Russell thought God was using him just like Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith, L.R. Hubbard and many, many others thought. They each interpreted the scriptures in their own unique manner, setting themselves up as God's channel. And each uses scare tactics similar to JW's for those that want to leave
    Scare tactics if you want to leave?? Baloney...Seventh Day Adventists and Mormans don't scare you if you just leave. If you don't believe, you don't believe. They don't shun, or say God doesn't love you anymore or do anything remotely similiar to JW's. I can't speak for Scientologist....(talk about mind control..shesssh!)
  • bluesapphire


    Too cool-"No meat on Fridays" rule was never a "dogma". It was a "discipline".

    now you got to love a religion like that - have on the books a rule that can get you sent to Hell forever and don't even have to call it a "Dogma

    Really?????? I NEVER knew the Catholic Church tought that to eat meat on Fridays was a sin worthy of going to hell. Please do tell or point me in the direction of where exactly this "fact" can be found. In all the years I was Catholic I never heard that.

    Are you absolutely sure it is not that the Watchtower lied and said that the Catholic Church taught that???? It seems like your comment prooves my point about anti-Catholic propaganda and the effect it has on uninformed people. Or hey, maybe there is a teaching like that and I'm uninformed ... if you can find it, I would really love to see it.

    Also, there is a HUGE difference between a dogma and a discipline. But that's another post/another topic. And if anyone is *really* interested in real facts (rather than just believing anything they hear or read someplace), they can look it up in the Catholic Catechism.

  • LyinEyes

    I have been in the same position as you. I have not been to a meeting in 10 months and did not go to the memorial this year, first time to miss it my whole life. I dont know what to beleive right now, but i simple feel that JW org. sets themselves up as judges over all of man, and I may not be a bible scholar but I think that is Jesus' job.
    How the end will come , where I go when I die , I just dont know. I thought of going back so many times, but I just couldnt sit there any longer ,in the hall, feeling the doubts that I have. Plus the proof is right out in the open to see, the coverups , the lies, the inaccuraces . I asked myself , can I stay in even if I know so much of it is wrong? No I could not. I knew I would never be the same, I couldnt comment on things I didnt think were right, I couldnt give talks on those things, I couldnt go in service and pretend to beleive the way they do. The JW org wants you to beleive ,no it demands you beleive 100% of what they say, even if they change it ever year or so.
    I just couldnt stay in something I dont have trust in . I dont know if I will ever change my mind.There would have to be a major reform.
    I dont think that will ever happen, past history shows they dont admit they were wrong, instead they blame the reader for not understanding what they meant. In the mean time , I will just put my life in Jesus hands ,let him judge me, and I dont hate all JW's some are good people. But there are many good people from other religions,
    some dont even go to church, and I just dont beleive God is going to kill everyone who is not a JW. It just doesnt make sense to me.I dont want to live forever if the old man down the street who reads his Bible daily is put to death because he is not a JW. If he is judged to die, then I surely and not worthy. I just cant go along with that JW teaching. So I cant put my heart into it anymore. Actually I feel closer to God and Christ now. That in itself tells me I might be on the right track afterall.

  • hawkaw

    I'm still waiting truthseeker for you to respond to Bill.


  • JT

    the comment was made bluesapphire:

    It seems like your comment prooves my point about anti-Catholic propaganda and the effect it has on uninformed people. Or hey, maybe there is a teaching like that and I'm uninformed ... if you can find it, I would really love to see it


    YES THE PROBLEM IS YOU ARE UNIFORMED - do your own research

    I don't know how old you are , but for some old time catholics they will tell you that it was part of being a good catholic, THE NO MEAT RULE ON FRIDAY

    My father in law was a good alter boy in the day and we laugh about it all the time

    he often talks about how he was so afraid of going to Hell

    he was hunger at school one day and they had Hotdogs and he said he ate one and didn't care if he went to hell , he was having was hunger

    the point is this

    Almost all Relgions share the same basic problem


    that is such a common thread that runs thruout most Belief Systems

    but the teaching of NO MEAT ON FRIDAY can be researched on the net

    YOU NEED TO DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH --esp if you are going to INFER THAT WHAT someone has said is wrong.

    before you infer that someone has stated something wrong make sure that you have you ducks lined up

    just a suggestion-

  • spender

    some things other people have commented on but i think need emphasis. If the org apparently keeps receiving "new light", why would they switch back and forth between two beliefs (sometimes 4 times or more) about *important* subjects. It would seem to me that it's impossible for there to be "new light" if you're reverting to old beliefs. Also think about the generations of people that lived before there were jw's. The GB made you think they were the only way for salvation...and they scare you into staying with them because they say that if you were given the opportunity by JW's to follow Jehovah in their way, and you rejected it, that you would not be resurrected. Which is actually one of the things they have switched back and forth on over the years...whether the "unrighteous" would be ressurected as well. Don't you think that would be something important God would want us to know? I think so.

  • bluesapphire

    This post is in answer to JT. It’s about the no meat on Fridays rule and is off topic to the thread so I apologize for that. Didn't want to start a whole new thread just to answer JT.

    Hi JT, usually I enjoy your posts and your style and I can see what your point is but I don't 100% agree this time. I think you are wrong to assume that because your father-in-law said so that it is so. Have you ever heard the line, "A lie told often enough is believed by the masses."

    I want to make it clear that at this point I am not 100% sure that the Catholic Church *really* ever taught or didn't teach that YOU WILL GO TO HELL if you eat meat on Fridays. I have done so much research on the Catholic religion in the past three years (not always agreeing with the RCC) but I never came across this.

    I believe it is possible that it is an anti-Catholic *twist* on a Catholic discipline. For example, it is only during lent that Catholics avoid eating meat on Fridays. And I believe that it is for persons from 7th grade and older if memory serves me right -- not small children. I'm in my 30's. Probably younger than your FIL but I have asked my mom and dad who are 56 and 60 and they have never heard of the going to hell part either. I am STILL researching.

    I do want to point out one thing though. You said I should do my own research. I think you are wrong. If you go to a JW and make a claim that the JWs taught that organ transplants were cannibalism and the JW turned to you and said, "Prove it", it would be up to YOU to do the research and substantiate your claim ("Have your ducks in line").

    You made the claim that the Catholic Church taught that to eat meat on Fridays (notice you didn't even say during lent -- you implied ALL Fridays) was a sin worthy of going to hell and you said they later changed it. I said I think you are wrong. I never heard that. Show me where they taught that and you said "DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH."

    I am not a JW and don't follow the dub rule of not looking at things opposed to my faith. I would look at any proof you could provide objectively. I have taken the time to do searches on and on and in my catechism and on various other links. I have also put in a call to Catholic Answers and am waiting for a reply (which I will post whether or not I am right or wrong). They are researching it. I haven't found anything which says the Church used to teach that eating meat on Fridays = go straight to hell.

    The closest I have come that sounds even *remotely* similar to what you claim is true is the fasting which is done during lent on Fridays and this hasn't been changed. Catholics still don't eat meat on Fridays during lent.

    A *MORTAL* sin (a sin worthy of hell according to the RCC), according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church Chapter III; Article IV #1857:

    For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."#1858Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments ... the gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft ...
    I also have found that it is one of the 5 precepts of the church but are presented as guidelines, not laws. Of course, depending on which Catholic you're talking to, some might be more insistent than others that they are followed. Typically, the older generation Catholics like my mom will insist on it. Perhaps it is because in her generation, there was much more contact with nuns who instilled those characteristics in them. I don't know. That's why I went to the Catechism itself. And nowhere in the Catechism does it say that breaking the lenten fast is a sin worthy of hell.

    I also went into an older Catechism from the 1940s and has the imprimatur and it says that breaking the Lenten fast because a person ”sincerely believes it is not a sin” is a venial/minor sin. IOW, it is NOT a sin worthy of hell! That is a direct contradiction to what you claim from a catechism in the timeframe you indicated.

    Okay, I did my homework. I believe I have substantial reasons not to believe what you claimed. I think that since YOU are the one making the claim, then you have the burden to back up your claim with your research (more is required than FIL's assertion). Specifically, you need to back up your claim that:

    a) The Catholic church taught that eating meat on all Fridays was a sin.
    b) That breaking that rule made one worthy of going to hell.
    c) That they changed that rule and Catholics are now allowed to eat meat on Fridays.


    PS: I will keep on looking and if I find that I am wrong (partially or wholly), I will admit it.

  • Unclepenn1

    Hey Lyin Eyes, it sounds like you are on the right track to me. Jesus will never let you down, ever! Trust in Him, you can't go wrong :)


  • TweetieBird

    to DoubleEdge,

    I stand corrected about the Seventh Day Adventists as I don't know what they do to former members. I did not really mean to lump them in with the others as far as shunning goes, just the history of their beginning. But, I have read stories of former Mormons and Scientologists that experienced the same type of treatment that witnesses experience when they leave.

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge


    I stand corrected about the Seventh Day Adventists as I don't know what they do to former members. I did not really mean to lump them in with the others as far as shunning goes, just the history of their beginning. But, I have read stories of former Mormons and Scientologists that experienced the same type of treatment that witnesses experience when they leave.
    I've know both Mormans and Seventh Day Adventists....Over the years I have had several Morman friends... some are active and some are not. NONE have ever been shunned, it's just not their policy. In fact, I asked a couple of my friends and they said that if someone is disfellowshipped, members of the congregation are to make a special effort to make that person not feel shunned and to give them some extra emotional and social support. Sounds like what you read is just "stories", or "sour grape" stories from someone with an ax to grind.

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