It hit the fan

by truthseeker1 51 Replies latest jw experiences

truthseeker1

Farkel:
If Jehovah was personally directing the organization, those problems would never have occurred or they would have gone away shortly after they surfaced.
I thought this too, then I thought about this. Jehovah works on his own timetable. Time has little meaning to Jehovah. In his and Jesus' dealings with people before, they have gradually given the truth out. To me its like a stream of knowledge coming from Jehovah. We arn't going to get it all at the same time, but through time more and more is going to be accurage. There are inaccuracies, but the Org DOES change their beliefs when they see that they are wrong. Other religions don't do this. Sure they were wrong about 1914, and perhaps about other things now. If I just wait on things to surface and trust in Jehovah, I'm sure these matters will be solved. Try not to criticize them too much for changing their beliefs. All Ex-JW changed their beliefs when they thought what they were believing was wrong, why cant the Org do that too? One last point is that in bible history, people directed by Jehovah have made mistakes. Moses, David, and others all were being led by Jehovah when they messed up. It wasn't God or his orginization at that time that was wrong, just these individuals. Just my 2 cents.
Double Edge

He then asked me is there any other religion or belief that is more accurate. I have studied most of them and I feel that the Witnesses have more truth than others.
You say you've studied most of them....that means not all. What if that which you haven't studied has more 'truth' than the Witnesses...you'll never know if you stop SEEKING. I asked on another post:
I've never been a JW, I'm really interested in knowing how the JW's lay claim to having Jehovah's backing? How were they organized in the mid 1800's, before the Bible Students, and did GOD appear to Charles Russell to let him know that he was the one? Looking at JW history is so hazy on their claim to be the TRUTH. Give me some hard, sold facts...I really am interested.
MAVMAN told me to wait until a Witness came by and give me a "Proclaimation" book. Then a few posters got on his back for not replying directly. I sent MAVMAN the following post:
Either you believe it and can explain it or you don't. I'm not here to argue the merits of the claim to authority to act as God's "True" organization, I would just like someone to tell me. A few years ago, a JW friend tried to explain it to me saying it goes back 6,000 years, but they weren't specific. I know how to get from Abraham to Christ. But how do you get from Christ and his Apostles to Charles Russell...that they lost me. Can you explain it? An example...who in 1588 represented God's "true" kingdom when the Christian world was basically divided between the Catholics, Protestants and the Church of England?
Personally, I've looked at the JW religion, and I must tell you, I can not agree with the statement that "the Witnesses have more truth than the other"... not by a longshot. If you believe in the New Testament and forget for a moment about the words of Peter, Paul and the others and take only the example of the life of Christ, I feel the Witnesses come up short.
Pathofthorns

I think you have made a big mistake and have said more than you should have before you were ready to. The wheels of the machine are already in motion to deal with you and they will be keeping a close eye on you.
You would be wise to not discuss this further with them and accept their "loving counsel" and continue researching in private silence until you are ready. If you believe you can reason with them, you are sadly mistaken and should prepare yourself for the inevitable if you go this route.
From this point on you need to tread very carefully and say very little.
Path
Valis

ts1...you need to figure out what it is you really want. Having your spouse on the other side of the argument sucks, but it all comes down to your desire for the real truth. It may be that discussing your feelings about WT issues with JWs will do you some good. Most likely though, a couple of things will happen. The first you will get more frustrated. All the argument you will get from them will lead you righ back to the bible, specifically thier bible. Two, you will harden the hearts of your loved ones against you. That's where it gets really unpleasant. Do the right thing for your own sake. Take a stand for your own intelligence. I wish you the best. Now then...
But you know, everything is a scandal to the ex-Witness, but in the congregation it's not even mentioned.
Mav, you're exactly right. There is no discussion is the congo....It isn't allowed. There is no democracy, only the dictatorial rule of the elders. Most brothers and sisters wouldn't think of bringing up things or having a valid, logical discussion about any of the topics that we think are important. Why? Because if you do, you become the dissident, or simply "not upbuilding", the APOSTATE. Keep living in your land of make believe and you'll do just fine. Lets talk about who twists words. The JWs have taken so much of the bible out of context it's not even funny. You say that posts like that of Alan are meaningless and have no purpose. To this I would say that every poster here who brings up the smallest point, or causes us to pause and think is relevant and important. What we are least interested in is a THE mentality. You know, the one where Jehovah still reigns and doesn't allow for intelligent and reasonable conversation. Perhaps you need more pictures in the posts you read, or maybe stick to the Watchtower and Awake.
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
Elsewhere

Sure they were wrong about 1914, and perhaps about other things now
Deuteronomy 18: 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.' 21 And if you say in your heart, 'How may we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?' -- 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.
I'm glad I'm an atheist, otherwise I'd have to murder some JWs - in the name of gawd.
"As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible" - The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126
Believe in yourself, not mythology.
<x ><
Xander

they have gradually given the truth out
So, you're saying the org does not have the complete truth now? Just checking. In fact, wait, I suggest you write a letter to your local PO asking why the org doesn't have the complete truth now. See what happens.
We arn't going to get it all at the same time, but through time more and more is going to be accurage
Out of curiosity, why not? Why was the knowledge given to the org from God in 1960 telling them organ transplans were wrong, yet in 1980, the message from God is that they were okay. If god doesn't change, somebody lied at some point about being inspired by him....
Other religions don't do this.
Bullshit! This is carefully prepared watchtower propoganda. I challenge you to find me ONE, even ONE religion that has maintained a belief from its founding that can be proven to be wrong using their beliefs.
Sure they were wrong about 1914, and perhaps about other things now.
Really? They admit this? Or, are you 'running ahead of the org'?
All Ex-JW changed their beliefs when they thought what they were believing was wrong, why cant the Org do that too
Because x-JWs are not claiming to be inspired by god in their beliefs. The Org is.
It wasn't God or his orginization at that time that was wrong, just these individuals
And repeating that over and over kept me in as long as I was. Problem is, the org has been CONSISTENTLY wrong since its very founding. It has, in fact, NEVER had a prophecy it made come true.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)
A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
RedhorseWoman

There are inaccuracies, but the Org DOES change their beliefs when they see that they are wrong. Other religions don't do this.
The problem with this is that the beliefs frequently change back again to what was believed previously....and then change once again. This is generally known as flip-flopping of beliefs....not a steady stream of knowledge.
Other religions also change their beliefs when they see that they are wrong. And other religions have, in the past, been heartily condemned by the WTBTS for changing their beliefs. A good example is the Catholic Church's various changes in belief over the years. The WTBTS jumped all over them and published several articles about the "unchangeability of truth" and the confusion and pain felt by church members when traditional beliefs were changed.
The Society has maintained for years that THEIR changing beliefs proves that THEY are the true religion, whereas another religion's changing IT'S beliefs proves that that religion is false.
Does this sound at all hypocritical to you? It certainly does to me.
Double Edge

One last point...Bible scholars, both believers and non-believers will tell you that the JW's New World Translation is one of the weakest translations ever.
2SYN

The real question here is, how long are you going to endure the mind control?

I'm sure glad we don't vote anymore like we did before we got the truth. Now we get to complain about everything ALL the politicians do!
[SYN], UADA - Unseen Apostate Directorate, Africa
sleepy

Truthy,
" Jehovah works on his own timetable. Time has little meaning to Jehovah. In his and Jesus' dealings with people before, they have gradually given the truth out. To me its like a stream of knowledge coming from Jehovah."
Lets imagine God did gradualy give information out before.Did God also give wrong information out, then gradualy correct it a little bit , then a bit more?What purpose does that serve.
If you become a witness today you have all the "correct" info straight away.Why couldn't God reveal that before?
I carnt see that pattern in the Bible, can you?
Anyway saying we have the "truth" is different to just having some right information. It implies that what we belive is completely right , yet as you know that is not the case.
If Jehovahs witnesses had lots of things wrong but some truth , how are they different to the Catholic church or others.Mabye God is revealing truth gradualy to them as well.
"There are inaccuracies, but the Org DOES change their beliefs when they see that they are wrong."
No they dont.For example in the 70's they had information to show that "this generation will not pass away" was not literal and that 1914 and 607 BCE are wrong dates.
Also in the 70's a majority of Governing Body members voted that civil service could be allowed,but this was not changed till the 90's hence thousands went to prison for many years even though most GB members viewed it as ok.
They have only changed beliefs when there is no more choice.
"Other religions don't do this."
Yes they do many religions have changed beliefs when they are seen to be in error.Does the Ctholic chuch still burn people who belive the earth is not the centre on the universe?
"If I just wait on things to surface and trust in Jehovah, I'm sure these matters will be solved"
Well that all depends on whether Jehovah has anything to do with the witnesses.If he doen't you're going to have a long wait.
What if (again) a Catholic said that about his religion, what would you say to him?
Now say that to yourself.
"One last point is that in bible history, people directed by Jehovah have made mistakes. Moses, David, and others all were being led by Jehovah when they messed up. It wasn't God or his orginization at that time that was wrong, just these individuals. Just my 2 cents."
The issue is not whether people used by God can make errors, but whether the society has evidence of being used by God.
Did God direct people to follow in the errors of these men?
Does this mean (again) that even though the Catholics church makes errors they are still chosen by God?
Did Moses or David say not to have private ideas as regard understanding God , but only have their ideas?

It hit the fan

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