Thank you ADCMS for posting the follow-up article. It's good to bring these 'Solid scriptural' articles that are soon flip-flopped, out in the open for newer JW's that never saw these gems..
HA! Take that Watchtower! One less Borg for you!!!!!
by Gojira_101 107 Replies latest jw friends
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ABibleStudent
Brother of the Hawk - Being "Spiritually strong" means being able to see the lie and readjust your thinking yourself, and not letting others do it for you. Being "Spiritually strong" also means knowing there are consequences that have to be paid, We lost all our family, except our Daughter and her husband. That is a price we were willing to pay. We are so thankful that he spoke up. Thank you so much my dear, dear friend. I Love you!
Thank you Brother of the Hawk for your perspective of seeing TTATT. I agree with you that people must do their own research and draw their own conclusions without being told what to think to realize TTATT. I also feel that love of others instead of the WTBTS is very important.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
P.S. - I am glad that you were able to help your family to see TTATT and hope that you can help other JWs.
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Gojira_101
@Abiblestudent: That is a tough one to answer. Spiritually strong or spiritually weak? When we were "in" we were the ones who would have been considered spiritually strong, not to brag but my family was one of the back bones of the congregation.
But looking back now, I guess we never were the good little JW's who did everything WT said to do. When it came to df'ed ones, we still treated them like Christ said to by showing love because maybe you could get your brother/sister back. It's hard to explain, yes we were spiritually strong, but weak at the same time. Around 2001 my mom became sick and even then when we started missing meetings the so-called "friends" of ours called us apostates, even though we were not at the time. All we kept saying is where is this so-called love Christ said would be the identifying mark of his followers?
After mom got sick, every single WT that came out with the experiences of that poor old sister who is home bound and how the friends helped her through it, and how loving they are to her...made me sick. I would get so pissed that would hang up the phone tie-in to the meetings. That love, care and concern was never there for my family, like it was for that poor old sister. I think for me personally, I didn't want to be one of those people who didn't care for a sick person or someone who was "down". In my mind it didn't matter if they were df'ed, inactive or still JW or a non-JW. People are still people with feelings and emotions.
I guess after that is when I started to really "SEE" what wt was like, but like someone else said, you don't know where else to go. So you just stay in with WT because you don't know where else to go because WT did such a good job at disproving all other religions are false, it leaves you staying with WT because you truly don't know where to go. I guess there is still habe hope that God really is with WT, but then the second the 4 of us realized God is not with WT, it was really easy for me to walk away.
One interesting thing about myself. While I was a JW, I had terrible anger issues. I would get so angry so quick because of how the JW's acted...the least little thing and I would go off on a rant for hours. Since I've left, I still get angry, but not like before. My husband and even my parents say how my attitude has improved for the better. It's very hard for me to admit this, but I was to the point where I HATED people, JW's and non-JW's alike. Now there is no hate in my heart anymore, and I actually feel sorry for all of these people who are stuck in these religions who are teaching hate.
Sorry I kind of went off topic and I'm not sure if I answered your other question.
Gojira
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Gojira_101
ADCMS: Thank you for listing those policy changes following the time line. I'm going to copy and print those up for my friend and show her.
We are supposed to be meeting again next week to talk more.
I also think that "bible based" understanding about homosexuality and bestiality not being grounds for divorce will be a good to show her. I'm sure she will be shocked! Since that is from a WT from before she started studying. Again using WT own lit against them to show people the flip flopping doctrine.
Gojira.
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Brother of the Hawk
Yep. I agree. Even the study conductors aren't aware of what was taught as 'New light' decades ago, that truly was NOT based solid on scriptures.
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Jen2013
Thank you Gojira, I really appreciate all the efforts ex-JWs take on. I am a non-believer for a long time. It might be, that I always was one. But there were times I searched and hoped to find a shoulder to lean on, but my thinking always ended in asking too many questions about the unholy Bible and most of the time I came to the conclusion: "No. This is ridiculous." "No. This is a lie". "No. This is not logical." "No. This is inhuman." "No. I don't accept this because of inhumanity." "No. If this or that is God or Jesus, than, sorry guys, I prefer to go with my head held high, right into hell." Today, I don't believe in evolution, I am certain of it.
But I was forced to live as a JW from age 4 or 5 to about age 13. Honestly, I really no nothing about that time. There is a black hole in my mind. After age 13 or 14 I started to live as a normal teenager likes to live and - just to please my mother - attended the meetings at the Kingdom Hall from time to time. I accepted to spend one or two hours with private bible studies with different JWs (also one of the 144.000, one you likes to control people, one you likes to rule with Jesus from above) at home until age 21 - just to please my mother of course. Then I quit being obedient and moved out, got married. It never ever came to my mind to become a Witness of this cruel invention called "Jehovah". I really don't like and don't promote this ancient picture of a god. The moment people accept death as part of life or just as the end of life, there is no need of a god and I am absolutely certain that almost all people are good people without a god. What we really need to live a good life is water, food, a home, a family and social life, jobs and tasks appropriate to our gifts and science and medicine to manage our health problems. This is what we have to work on. We can invent as many gods as we can imagine, but these god-fantasies do not solve our problems or get our lives better. Yes, there is an alternative to inventing god-fantasies that don't work. It is called humanism. -
ABibleStudent
Gojira_101 - Sorry I kind of went off topic and I'm not sure if I answered your other question.
Hi Gojira_101, I do not feel that you went off topic at all. By you writing about your experiences and feelings, it may resonate with a JW with doubts and get them to start critically thinking for themselves.
I had a former friend who is a "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JW, who I tried to ask simple questions about WTBTS's articles, how she felt, and I sent her links to do independent research. She also mentioned how some JWs would be judgemental about her loving to dance and socializing with other JWs as well as at least one non-JW (me). Unfortunately, she was not "encouraged" when I asked her questions about WTBTS's articles and she exhibited classic authentic/cult persona changes as described by Steve Hassan. I have come to the conclusion that JW's must be exposed to the hypocrisy of the WTBTS's propaganda (or lies) and how JWs treat each other to see TTATT.
I hope that the WTBTS will put more burdens on JWs so that JWs will be ready to see TTATT when a friend asks them simple questions to plant seeds of doubts.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
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*lost*
Jen I like your ethos- very much.
Hopefully discussion threads like this will help lurkers to come 'out'.
thankfull at least we now know the TRUTH about jehovah. Makes me sick.
Probably the biggest ever scheme of deceit and lies in the history of man.
Hopefully we can help others to realise who they are actually worshiping and who is the 'man' behind the curtain. It all makes sense now, everything about WT is designed to give exclusive devotion to this god of wickedness, slaves in bondage.
Isn't it amazing how a person's natural instincts can kick in. When something don't feel right, it aint right, and always follow that gut feeling in life.
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Black Sheep
Black Sheep: Gojira's Dad & I were JW's for 45+ yrs each, so believe me, we do kind of know what we're talking about. So if you haven't read Ray Franz's book Crisis of Conscience pgs 357-377 I highly recommend it.
Hi, Newly Enlightened
My parents were baptised members of this cult for over a decade before I was born in the early 50's, so I do kind of know what I am talking about.
Yes, I have read my copy of COC.
For having WT literature to back up what we say here it is:
WT 1980 9/15 pg 25:
That article does not back up the assertion that, "If you get baptized and your kids don't accept the "truth" and you continue to talk to them, you will be df'ed."
Please demonstrate how you are going to defend the accusation from a JW that you are lying about it being inevitable that you will be DF'd for not shunning your non-believing children, when this article you quoted says nothing about getting expelled from the church for associating with your own children that never joined the church? That is not the only 'out' either, as you should well know, as there is no ruling to DF parent who refuse to shun their 'drifted' kids.
If I am wrong, please provide the documentation.
Thanks
Chris
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Newly Enlightened
Black Sheep: Well if you don't think that article is saying that you could be DF'd also, then there is nothing I can do to convince you. But you know as well as we do then it is implied. And I know the deaf do not understand that. But we also know there is NOT full disclosure when a person is baptized regarding the punishment of shunning.
I know for a FACT it happens because it happened in my own family! My little brother was never baptized but left my parents home and discovered he was gay. My Mom & siblings SHUNNED him and he ended up committing suicide.
NE