HOT OFF THE PRESS: ZO talk in Japan (page 5)

Jeffro

steve2:

My impression though is that of the high numbers of born-ins who leave relatively few ever take it to the level of actively pursuing exposure-type information on the Watchtower compared to those who leave, get a higher education and never look back as it were.

That's not directly relevant to JWs searching the Internet for information about the religion when they first have doubts. Your argument here goes more toward the duration for which an individual might search for such information, but not really whether they would at all.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

"When people at the doors reject us and the food from the Faithful and Discreet Slave, they are rejecting Jesus and Jehovah."

I just rolled my eyes so hard I bruised my corneas.

Why would the Japanese care about Jesus and Jehovah? Other religions are as valid as, or more valid than Christianity in their country. Some guy that never wrote a word died two thousand years ago in a Middle Eastern city smaller than many Japanese cities should impress them why? So too, why would they care about the FDS?

Imagine a Japanese religio-publishing corporation coming to America or Europe and saying that when people reject the leadership of the Japanese emperor, they are rejecting the dieties and nature. The collective response would be, "yeah, so?"

"Glad Chris Mavor is getting to travel. He has worked in the executive offices for years and plays French horn in the WT orchestra. Really nice guy. It's about time he gets some perks. IMO he's too smart not to have awakened, but like so many, his gig with WT is more appealing than what would be available to him on the outside."

Chris' wife Susan gave up a rising career in opera for "da troof". She's interviewed on the second "Young People Axe" video. Such a waste of her talent to sing Botchtower Maladies.

steve2

Sorry for getting your name wrong Jeffro!

I have no statistical evidence, but my deduction from talking over many years to many born-ins who have faded or more deliberately left by committing what JWs call "sins of the flesh" is this: A greater proportion of them were bored by the JW lifestyle but continued even after leaving to harbor mixed intentions to go back at some stage. It is not uncommon to hear inactive witnesses or (to use an old phrase) "sheep-like persons" state intentions to go back to meetings when "conditions in the world" worsen - which is why, in the West, meeting attendances swell for a while in the wake of traumatic events such as 9/11 or Hurricane Katrina. My point is simply that leaving a religion is not necessarily tantamount to disbelieving it, particularly among younger born-ins. I have long maintained that apathy, and NOT apostate leanings, explains the growing number of born-ins who drop out. .One further strand in support of my hypothesis is the high likelihood that faded born-ins usually steer clear of any "apostate" literature - even when they are well clear of active involvement in the organization - it's as if being disfellowshipped for immorality is less personally reprehensible than being disfellowshipped for apostasy which seems very self-serving in myview.

Jeffro

steve2:

I have long maintained that apathy, and NOT apostate leanings, explains the growing number of born-ins who drop out.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But the whole concept of 'apostate leanings' is really a Watch Tower Society beat-up. Casually doing an Internet search for 'Jehovah's Witnesses' is no more an 'apostate leaning' than watching a funny cat video on youtube is a 'leaning' towards hording cats. The fact that the person may then stumble upon something the Watch Tower Society 'doesn't want them to see' may be incidental to any initial motive.

Without other external factors, apathy would tend to affect retention at a fairly constant rate rather than the decline in growth seen in the last 15 years.

WinstonSmith

Hello everyone,

Sorry for the late reply, glad to see this has been of interest. Heard from our friend again today and he emailed a photo of the book. It is light pink with a marble-esque pattern and is pretty much the same dimensions as a Daily Text book. It is written in normal size font and in the vertical Japanese style. He asked me not to post the photo because he doesn't know how to remove "EXIF data". I don't even know what that is but will respect his wishes.

The only reason we can think as to why they went with the book of Matthew is that perhaps it contains the most JW friendly synopsis of Jesus life and ministry? I think Japan would be mostly Buddhist wouldn't it? Maybe Shinto? Not sure of the reasoning. My mate has recorded about 30 mins of the talk but is having trouble sending it on the hotel wifi. If it comes through I'll see if I can upload it. The talk was broken up with the speaker saying a few sentences, then a translator repeating what was said in Japanese.

With regards to the possible reasons for decline, one thing my mate has noticed there is that there are lots of sisters in the congregations and there were visibly more at the stadium for the talk. He was pretty happy about that LOL! It seems that there are lots of unbelieving husbands. So maybe what is happening is the kids of these families are now getting to an age where they can make a decision, and choose not to go down the JW path. There is huge pressure for kids to go to University in Japan, and my mate said that there is huge pressure, especially for the brothers to be pioneers, MSs, and elders. Pretty much if you aren't a pioneer, you aren't considered marriage material.

These might be contributing factors? Surely the internet mustbe playing a role.

Jeffro

He asked me not to post the photo because he doesn't know how to remove "EXIF data". I don't even know what that is but will respect his wishes.

"EXIF data" is a format of 'metadata' - data stored in the file in addition to the image itself - which may include information such as the model of camera and other details about the camera or other software used to process the file. A few digital cameras can also store GPS co-ordinates. The individual is concerned that the metadata may be able to personally identify him.

WinstonSmith

Hi Jeffro / Jethro :-P

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense that he was unsure about posting it.

I'd like to hear more about exJWs or 'apostates' from Japan. There must be some out there somewhere. I remember Possible-san posting recently, and I think there might have been a couple more?