"They went out from us, but they were not of our sort..." - worst ever scripture to lead an anti-apostate talk?

by cedars 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cedars

  Hi everyone

  The program for the 2013 convention series has been drawn to my attention. Here is a link to it...

  http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=PDF&output=html&pub=co-pgm13&langwritten=E&option=TRGCHlZRQVNYVrXF&txtCMSLang=E

  There is a Saturday morning symposium on "apostates." Apparently Satan is the "support act" to warm the audience up before the REAL threat of "Human Apostates" is discussed.

  Here is a copy of the relevant part of the program...

  

  Obviously it will be fascinating to listen to what the organization has prepared in the outline. Something tells me there will be some fresh hate-speech employed that they didn't want printed in the publications.

  That aside, I find the choice of scripture for the "Human Apostates" talk interesting. 1 John 2:19 reads...

  "They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort."

  Is it just me, or is this one of those scriptures in the Bible that does nothing more than state the obvious? Of course if a group detach themselves from an original group, they are no longer in the same group and show this by their detachment. That in itself doesn't prove or disprove the validity or merits of the original group. It strikes me John was either tired or had sipped a little too much wine when he wrote this.

  What DOES prove the validity or merits of the original group, at least in a religious context, is whether the original group is true or not. This is borne out in one of the following verses...

  "I write you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie originates with the truth." (1 John 2:21)

  Again, John is stating the painfully obvious in saying "no lie originates with the truth" - but at least he shows that truth is important in the context of religious allegiance. Therefore, if an organization is proven to use lies and deceit in defending its teachings, there can be no disgrace in "apostatizing" from it. Indeed, this is precisely what it is claimed the early Bible Students did when they broke from mainstream Christianity.

  Just thought I'd share.

  Cedars
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  Refriedtruth

  Good to know
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  trujw

  This is a 1950's style religion that is still trying to sell their Vacuum cleaners and encyclopedias door to door. I think the little leaders in a compound in New York know they can't beat the internet. All they have left is fear mongering.
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  Splash

  Don't forget the next verse to put it all into context

  (1Jo 2:22) Who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that the Governing Body is the Christ?

  Splash
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  Theocratic Sedition

  The context of that verse and consideration of how the WT uses it, was something that always seemed odd to me even when I still believed the WT. That verse has nothing to do with the WT as an organization, and everything to do with Christ and ones that denied him and the Father. Their misuse of 1 John 2 is similar to their misuse of Paul's thoughts in 1 Cor 15 which is a notorious chapter used by the WT when it comes to association. The verse is used to keep JW youth sheltered but the context of the verse is about ones denying the resurrection and living with an extreme view to pleasures as a result. That chapter had nothing to do with young people. The WT however takes both of those verses and makes the intent of those verses about them, when it fact those verses are entirely about Jesus and his Father.
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  Emery

  Great analysis Cedars!
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  braincleaned

  I'm going to that assemby, and I will obviously stand out as not a JW. If asked, I will say that I'm an apostate according to the WTS, and that I came to take notes for my blog. And if asked my name, I will say it's none of their business. It's a public talk, period.
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  sir82

  those verses are entirely about Jesus and his Father.

  Silly wabbit....

  What's more important: "Jesus and his Father" or "direct commands decreed by the faithful and discreet slave"?

  "By extension" any verse in the Bible can mean anything the governing boobies want it to mean.
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  Mum

  I have never been to another church where "apostates" were ever mentioned.

  In the Holiness (southern mountain folk), there were people who had "backslid" or were "not livin' right," but it was hoped that they would get back on track and return to Jesus -- not necessarily to the Holiness Church, but to Jesus.

  In the Episcopal Church, there is a lot of turnover. People join other churches or just stop attending. No big deal, as everybody has to work out their own spiritual path.

  In the Baptist Church, they are warned and given Biblical arguments against JW's, Mormons and other cult groups, but no dire warnings about "apostates."

  The above-named churches, however, were not counting on their membership solely for revenue enhancement to pay for sexual molestation judgments.

  Lord help the poor JW's. They have been duped, and are lost and 'way downstream.
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  *lost*

  Thanks for sharing ..... i am learning much as a newbiee thanks to your honesty and openness and views and opinions. Which are non-hateful or spiteful.

  WHY are they so afraid ???? I am realising how scary and serious the situation is for those that are concreted in to the organisation with family etc.

  Its MEDIEVAL. without the burning at the stake, Romans and lions etc.

  APOSTATE ???? is a hater and worker against God, Jesus, the truth. Not someone who seeks truth and doesn't fully trust in men.

  JUST as Jesus warned.

  People shouldn't be afraid. If it is Jehovah's faithful and discreet slave class, like the origional apostles, well, there is nothing to worry about/fear.

  IF it is the work of Satan the devil, then there is much to fear.... from God himself.