by Ephanyminitas 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Welcome to the board Ephanyminitas and Fire Dragon! I'm currently undecided but tend to agree with COMF for now.
"We would not refuse to treat one as a brother because he did not believe the Society is the Lord's channel... There should be full liberty of conscience." -- WT April 1, 1920, p. 100, 101
I am with COMF....however, I lean towards patio34...however, I have called myself an aetheist...hmmmm, I seem to be confused....
Said COMF: "I don't believe in the biblical god, but I think there's too much order and complexity for it to have originated and grown to what we now see through a series of chance occurrences. I allow for the possibility of some form of higher intelligence. If it exists, though, I don't imagine it to be particularly benevolent, given the nature of life (eat other living things, or die)."I've given up hope of ever knowing the answers, and contented myself with living a full, rewarding life while I'm alive. If it turns out there's life after death, kewl. If not, my present life won't have been spent waiting for the ever-not-present tomorrow."
Yeah, I basically fall under "just Atheist" instead of "hardcore Atheist." Could there be a God or some Force? Sure -- but there's no proof that there is. All evidence is subjective. You have to want to believe in God in order do so, and that throws objectivity straight out of the window! That's all that faith is: looking at that which cannot be true, or at that of which there is no evidence, and convincing yourself of it. If you didn't have to do this, why would faith be needed 'to believe'? If the facts can't stand on their own -- if they are too miraculous for common sense -- then they are not facts.
Quoth Lark: "I am checking in as an agnostic. I don't know and I dont't care. Whatever happens, happens."Again, I'm with you on this. I'm not going to play these ridiculous games and engage in meaningless, superstitious ceremonies and ________.
Said Truthseeker1: "If i believe in a god, it is an impersonal abstract force that started it all, and if we choose to call that god, then hey, I believe in god. I once read it as "first push" or something.I agree with this. There might have been something -- a stimulus, if you will -- but I don't buy into the fact that it's worthy of worship just because it (indirectly) created us. Are cloned people going to be made to worship the doctors that created them?
Ashitaka said: "Don't see too much on this beautiful/horrible planet that points to a guy who makes pillars of flame and such."It just sounds like an ancient myth -- all of it: creation, the flood, pillars of fire from the sky. And we're supposed to accept this crap on what solid grounds? None!
Garybuss: "Pointless is hopeless is dreamless is not very enjoyable."Let me elaborate: I believe that we weren't created for some purpose. (Created to obey God, says the Society? Come on! I was never pleased with that.) We just happened. In that sense, there is no exact purpose to life. But that doesn't mean that life is purposeless. We have a responsibility to our intellect to learn, to explore, to be individually happy, and to be an asset to society. Beyond that, we have very little.
In the end, I only believe in facts. I make a point not to say that I believe in science because scientists (not science) are fallible. But there are certain things that are concrete facts -- e.g. water freezes at 32.F/0.C. This is known and proven. There's no proof of God; there're just ideas, theories, hopes, and speculation. (And no Lionel Hutzes here: "Those are kinds of evidence.")
Mark me down as an athiest, as well.
The problem with most people believing in God (tribal or otherwise) is that they have never read the Godell Theory of Incompleteness. Quite an eye-openeer, that one!
[SYN], UADA - Unseen Apostate Directorate of Africa - For Great Justice!
Count me in as an atheist. Went from Witness for 35 years to atheist in the past five years. My shift started when I began doubting the WTS, then I began to read the Bible to see if I could still believe in THAT, amd well... It all collapsed like a house of cards.
While there is debate about what term to use: agnostic, atheist, freethinker, humanist, rationalist, etc., I think I would probably agree with most of these concepts, and have trouble with some small part, so I don't try to get too hung-up on the labels.
My take on the meaning of life thing is that the mistake would be to try to find some all-encompassing MEANING OF LIFE that must fit everyone. There just isn't such a thing. Probably we would all agree that our families and relationships are central to our purpose in life, while, in addition, meaning for my life centers on my writing and music, and your's may center on building wonderful furniture, studying history or teaching. We each have to find that driving purpose for our existence.
I think the most wonderful thing I've come to realize after leaving the Witnesses is that we each are responsible for creating our own purpose in life - and that it has nothing to do with being TOLD what our lives should mean.
And I've often thought that one of the most important arguments AGAINST there being a god is the teaching of religion that humanity's purpose is to worship and praise that god. WHY would a totally complete and perfect being like a god have any need at all to be worshipped??? It makes no sense?
Think about it - even humans who are good at something very quickly tire of being told how wonderful they are. It's embarrassing and foolish after a while. Creative humans want to get on with expressing their creativity, not being told how great they are. You have to be a pretty pathetic and probably psychotic human to want praise and power all the time.
My guess is that it WAS pathetic and psychotic humans who CREATED the idea of a god who wanted those things to begin with. Sort of a sick god reflecting the worst of human qualities.
S4
Count me in for going to "evolutionist soup from JW nuts".
I can't prove God exists and I can't prove God does not exist. At this point I agree with many humanist goals/ideas.
The great writings/books of Christianity and other world religions seemed like reading a mix of folklore and the inspirational. I came away with the idea that originally it was man made for control and to fill a need for sprituality.
Morality and the motivation to leave this world a better place does not require a church stamp.
Pretty much the majority WHO POST are atheist to these topics.
Why don't many speak up who still are Christian?
Seems to me like they do not respond to these topics...............WHY?
Xenu - from the link you posted:
...including the progress of the Embassy which we are building for Extra-terrestrials.
Are they calling it Beth-Sarim, by any chance?
COMF
Well, Gumby, though anyone IS free to join, I pretty much set this up just for atheists to sound off. :-)
Well said, Seeker4! I agree with everything you said. The idea of God -- no offense to anyone -- appears to just be silly. Under critical thinking, as you said, everything just falls apart!
