Interesting Comment From an Active Elder

by DarioKehl 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DarioKehl
    DarioKehl

    I was recently speaking to an elder "off the record" while helping him do some house repairs. I have a comfortable enough relationship to speak openly with him about things, but am careful to disclose the extent of my disbelief in WT doctrine. Anyway, this guy wouldn't last a day in the mafia because he can't keep anything confidential. If I hang around him long enough and allow him to do most of the talking, I'll know about every juicy B-room detail.

    Anyway, I decided to pick his brain a little. He never discusses doctrinal matters. One of the things I'll never miss about the JW lifestyle is the gossip. So, rather than listening to everyone's dirty laundry, I started the topic this time.

    I asked him, "So, honestly, what do you think about all the changes that are going on?"

    Elder: "Changes? What changes?"

    Me: "Well, for starters, just compare everything today to 2007! We no longer have book study, Bethel properties are shutting down everywhere, the magazines releases were reduced in frequency and now volume, we have a totally different song book now with creepy music, the generation doctrine has been changed TWICE since then, the annual meeting announced that the slave IS the GB, they're pounding jw.org at every opportunity when the internet was all but forbidden not long ago, the word "brazen" has replaced "loose conduct" in all the newest literature (even though "loose conduct" is what appears in the sited scripture) and the publications have taken a much stricter tone with education and disfellowshipping!"

    Elder: "Huh. Really? You think they've gotten stricter? I thought they've been getting much better! The end is so close and they're really trying to keep us alert!"

    Me: "Not so fast. We have decades left now! The most recent understanding of "generation" means that there will be an "overlapping" of those living in 1914 and those who see the end."

    Elder: (scoffs) "Well. Honestly, just between you and me, I don't think even they know what's going on right now. I think there is corruption all the way to the top. It's happened at headquarters before. Or, maybe this younger batch on the GB are mostly Pharisees."

    [Ok, that blew me away. I couldn't believe he just said that to me. In my mind, party horns and confetti poppers where going off.]

    Me: "Wow. You know, I've suspected that myself but never felt comfortable sharing it with anyone. I'm glad you said that. It would go hand in hand with their new light allowing them to consolidate authority from the "remnant," that would make sense! But, I have another reason for thinking we have decades left. Since 2007, the number of partakers has gone from around 8,300 to almost 12,000! What do you think?"

    [At this point, I'm playing devil's advocate--a very dumb one. I have to play the role as a sincerly confused dub who's asking honest questions from an elder but my real motive is to get him to start thinking for himself and speak freely. He did. What he said next is pretty interesting.]

    Elder: "Huh, really? I hadn't noticed that. Wow. Well... All I can say about that is, in my experience, any time someone starts partaking out of the blue, it's only a matter of months before they become apostate."

    I was dumbfounded for 2 reasons. First, how could he be so naiive about all the major changes I'd mentioned that have happened since 2007? Second, how could he not have noticed the massive increase in partakers? This man is obviously under heavy, heavy indoctrination/mind control. Seriously. However, when I asked my questions, the look in his eyes showed a real "wake up" moment! Finally, the thing I found really interesting was his observations about new partakers going apostate. He's an elder who can't keep confidential things quiet, so I know he's speaking from experience. I'm wondering, if this is the case, is the reason for the increasing partakers mostly composed of delusional, megalomanical nuts who really believe they're annointed? Or are many closet doubters making some kind of silent protest? I do know of a few people who recently began partaking within the last 15 years or so (and these aren't people who were alive prior to 1935. These are people who started partaking in their 20s-50s) and they're all either totally nuts or have since left the organization. This elder may be absolutely correct.

    Have any people here who are "still in" started partaking at JW Memorials as a form or protest or to screw up their numbers?

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    Awesome read...thanx for sharing

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    DarioKehl:

    He said: ". . . in my experience, any time someone starts partaking out of the blue, it's only a matter of months before they become apostate."

    He may very well be correct, . . . from his perspective.

    I started partaking a few years ago. I started doing it because I recognized from the Bible that that is what Christians were supposed to do.

    Consider just this one difference:

    Jesus gave the reason for partaking as: ". . . in rememberence of me [Jesus]"

    Paul put it this way: "For when you [partake] you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord . . ."

    But in the Kingdom Hall, when you partake, you are proclaiming your 'hope,' that you are 'anointed and are going to heaven.

    In the Bible, it is all about Jesus. In the KH it is all about the partaker.

    When I started partaking, I also recognized that I was contradicting WT teaching. Not just by partaking but for the reasons I was partaking. If I had claimed that I had had some kooky spiritual experience, I would have been accepted as another possible mental case, and for the WT, that's fine - because it dismisses me from being a serious 'contender,' if you will.

    But to partake because the Bible says so, that means that what the WT teaches about it is false, which places me in the catagory of an apostate. Although, in reality, it is the WT that is the apostate, not me. But, as it is, those in charge are the ones who get to decide who the apostate is. Thus, your elder friend's viewpoint . . .

    Thnaks for letting us in on the conversation. Very interesting indeed.

    Take Care

  • DarioKehl
    DarioKehl

    Oh yeah, Bobcat...

    Thanks for your comment. As a nonbeliever, I hadn't even considered that option. Yes, the JW version of the ceremony is quite different in meaning than that held by the majority of Christianity. So, that would bring the total for the increase to 3 reasons: silent protest by those mentally out, silent protest by those who interpret the scriptures to mean everyone should be included and, of course, the delusional nuts who actually believe they're part of the 144K elect saved who will rule over the rest of our bitch asses lol.

  • prologos
    prologos

    I wish I had your presence of mind and control to guide such a conversation. wow. he will veto any action against you, fearing getting toasted himself.

    Partaking as an act of "thumbing your nose" at them? probably not.

    Many realize that ALL should partake, that passing the glass, plate is a charade. but would NOT eat and drink there, because.

    partaking after that mixed - up talk would amount to setting yourself up as a mentally deseased, a sealed heaven-bound martyr.

    Partakers in this crowd dont care about the numbers, but are of the percentage that feels that they make the cut for whatever reason.

    Many knowledgeable ones partake at home, have for decades.

    It will be interesting to see if the scattered knowledge of the demotion of the "partaker F&DS annointed CLASS" will discourage eager aspirants from partaking.

  • Hermano
    Hermano

    Sounds like you got his mental wheels turning....

  • besty
    besty

    be aware you have no friends in the Watchtower - in the end, everyone dies.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    Interesting conversation you had!

    Me: "Not so fast. We have decades left now! The most recent understanding of "generation" means that there will be an "overlapping" of those living in 1914 and those who see the end."

    What does that mean? How can an overlap add up to a few more decades? 2013-1914=99 years old today if just born in 1914--in decades, they will certainly be all dead.

  • designs
    designs

    They partake and then they become apostate- so true

  • Tater-T
    Tater-T
    What does that mean? How can an overlap add up to a few more decades? 2013-1914=99 years old today if just born in 1914--in decades, they will certainly be all dead.

    Decades? more like centuries.. or another mullinium... it's the generation who saw the generation of the gerenation whom witnessed the 1914 generation pass away .. they are ones who see the fulfilment of all these things

    geez ..silly .. and thats barely enough time to get the required quota of Watchtower studing done...

    great post DK.. just having fun..

    the last time I spoke to my Sister.. 15years ago.. she said "Tate there's 10 maybe 20 years left.. and that barely enough time to get strong enough in the truth to make it.. "

    LOL ..

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