by Aussie Oz 38 Replies latest jw experiences
Aussie Oz>>>>>The unconditional love and concern for your children, shines through.
What you have done will be so helpful for others trying to gently wake their loved ones up to TTATT.
Good Morning to you Assie Ox and Good Night from the West Coast of North America.
Just Lois
Had some interesting chats with my daughter today about whether she believes everything she hears at the meetings and reads in the watchtower.
Turns out she does.
Until i pressed on a few subjects... turns out she does not think worldly people are bad, that the WT is wrong for blanket statements about how evil they all are, that she does not think it is right that they have failed predicting the end for over a hundred years and disagrees when they keep pushing the end,
And i find this all rather alarming!
because although some lights are firing (and i mean that in a nice way!)
the cult dumbing down is working on the whole... unless probed to think she just figures its 'the truth' and it makes sense.
I really tried to challenge her when it comes to beleiving everything she hears whether on the news or from the platform.
Basically my message for the day was don't beleive a god damn thing you get told by anybody including me! You have to prove it to yourself, you have to look at all sides of everything before you can decide what you believe about anything, whether it is a news report or a bible teaching.
I hate that kids being raised as JWs have to be dealt this lesson so young when all they want is to be left alone to be and do teenage stuff...I hate having to disrupt the simplicity of life but her future is at stake...
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Had a little chat to her the other day about a couple of things...
she had the friday off school i found out so she could go witnessing with the CO's wife and have lunch with them. Anyway, got to talking about the door to door work and whether she thought it was an effective method of preaching, which she does/did. I asked her if she was aware that after 130 years of preaching that most people could not tell you what the JWs believed but rather could only say what they didn't believe, and even then still get some of that wrong. I asked if she thought that the door to door work was really effective to which she concluded it was possibly not.
It led to talking about Campings methods, which the whole world were aware of and how in a very short time he was able to get his message out. Practically the whole world could tell you just what Camping taught. I brought up his use of the internet, the marches, the radio, the travelling truck billboards etc and she concluded they were very effective. I asked her to ponder on why the WT society had stopped using those methods of old as mentioned in the proclaimers book and DVDs...
Also lasked her if she was aware of Campings explanation for failure, and she thought his 'invisible' defense was funny and concluded he must be a false prophet... so i asked her if she thought the JWs had ever done the same thing. Her answer was no. Our little chat had to be up at that point so i left her by saying that she needs to look at her history, because she will find they have indeed done exactly what Camping did...
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I hate the Watchtower. I loath the control, I despise the narrow mindedness of its adherants.
I hate what it does to teenagers.
As if teenagers don't have enough angst as it is without some bunch of old farts in Brooklyn controling their lives via their dumbed down ignorant parents.Without going into detail i found one of my kids had visited a coule of websites that really disturbed me. You read between the lines...and its not porn either. This led to an emergancy call to my kid about the site and what it was about. As much as i love freedom of information, i wish google and wiki would remove said stuff...
I got a kick in the guts wake up call. I kinda thought my kids would travel through the teen years happy and bubbly. I found out that thats not the reality and even mine have problems...duh on me.
This weekend we had a big talk about life and its dificulties. Talked about; double lives, boys, grief, problem solving, making decisions, leaving home, judging, friends, drugs, depression, suicide, comunication, feelings, the future, living in the now versus living for the paradise, baptism, my own life, loss of faith, God...to name the topics i can remember.
Just how does a kid get through life when they cant talk to their JW mother because they are just so blinded by the WT that they are incapable of really helping, when the only confidant is another teenager with their own fucked up life?
It's no easy task drawing out the concerns of a teenager thats for sure, and harder when they start to cry.
I love my kids so much, i just want to rescue them from this damn con job religion so they can actually begin to live a proper life free of all the judgementalism and narrow minded warp.
I, for one, can fully understand why some want to actively destroy the WT.
I know, this maybe hasnt made a lot of sense...I just spent two days trying to reach the heart and offer understanding to a sad little person. But, at least they know how much i care and that i will never judge them or call them stupid, idiot or rebelious, or tell them that the solution to whatever is pray harder and have a bible study...
And now i am sad.
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I know i reached the heart and got some opening up.
its too easy for kids to just say ''i dunno, not much, nuffin' '' etc when you ask them questions, so getting to the bottom of stuff is rewarding...
but you have to be prepared to hear stuff you dont like.
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I need some advice and help.
There is going to be a 'shit fight at the it's not OK correl' soon, i know it.
Many are aware of my efforts to rescue my kids from the evilness that is the Wt. I am reaching my daughter and hearing things that are disturbing to me. Today i found out that she has doubts about the JWs (partly due to me) and says its because she has found out they lie and some things dont add up. She no longer wants to go to meetings and witnessing but is scared of hurting her mother. (who she lives with) She is torn with feelings of guilt and being a bad person for wanting to be a 'worldy'.
She wants to be a 'normal' girl and not a JW girl. This as i am sure many of you know would cause severe stress and depression in anyone, let alone a kid.
Its tough as i only see her every two weeks, but i have got her consent to talk about her doubts and many other issues next time i see her. She was under the impression that if she stopped meetings her mother would have to shun her, thankfully i sorted that misconception out today. (she is not baptised). Her mother will be one of the 'our house our rules' type.
I am feeling strongly that the only way she can do this may be to live with me. This will not need to disrupt her schooling nor move her away from friends. BUT it will start WW3. There will be NO NEGOTIATION fron the ex, that is not her style. the only way i can see to do this is to get my legal ducks in order, notify the local police and not take her home on the sunday afternoon. I know that within the hour of being late, she will call the police. She is of legal age to choose her custodial parent, but the ex will not let this be an easy thing. If my daughter is not able to face her mother, i will do it.
Perhaps i need to take her to a counselor for help and legal/professional backup?
How do i navigate the world of helping her see through the fog of pain about something that should be simple? ie; just to be free to be a normal person.
It tears me up to learn the devastion that so called religions like the JWs can wreak on young people who because of age and inexperiance can see no way out of the inner turmoil.
Have you been through this? Have you had to take custody of your kid? If you are a teen, how did you tell your JW parent?
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As many of you know, i don't see my teenage son much these days... friends more fun then dad, you know. But last time he was here we had a little chat about his life and decisions. See, he knows he should be looking deep at the JWs and doesnt want to. He said he won't listen. His JW girlfriend just changed he life irrovacably yesterday by getting baptised... anyway, i digress a little, in our chat he re promised to never shun me, my reply, in a 'fun' tone was to tell him if he does he can expect me on his doorstep to give him a slappin'. We shall see what the future holds but i see him dunked inside a year. He also promised to bring her around to meet me when it gets more serious...i have some stuff to say at that time you see...
Anyway, daughter is still much more inclined to listen. She mentioned on her visit that when they were little they used to play 'baptise, un-baptise' in the bath. I remarked how sadly that didnt work in real life. She is very well aware of just what baptism really means for teenagers. We had another great this weekend and i sugested she read crises of conscience (I leave a copy in her bedroom) She said she'll take it home to read... I had to strongly suggest she not! I said, darling, that would be like taking satan home as your date! You see, the JWs hate that book more than any other. So she said she'll read it here...
We got onto the internet and she remarked that her mum hates the internet. I explained that many JWs do. They are scared of it and they should be! She hears the talks at the conventions warning about social network sites. They are scared because they can't control it and the truth about the 'truth' bring posted on it, that they will even shut down pro JW sites because they are scared of witnesses talking to each other.
She was telling me about some interesting people at the public talk at the convention. A big bikey with 'two beards', a guy with long dreadlocks, lots of piercings and a cross tattooed on his face and a rockabilly girl complete with betty page hair and 50s dress. I asked her what she felt when she saw them...jealous! See she wants to be like them...well, not a hairy biker, but different to the 'normals'. I remarked that if they keep going, i'd give them six months and they'll be in beige cardigans like the rest of them. But, they might have been raised as jws and just go along sometimes to keep family happy. I told her i could never go back because they wouldnt have me unless i got a boring haircut and hid my titty tattoos, not to mention having to clean my brain out...she wants to be emo with crazy hair and lip piercings, she has a stretcher (a bullet shell) in one ear. How the hell she gets away with that i don't know! But she said if she came home with 'smake bite' (lip piercings) her step father would refuse to let her in the house. I remarked how sad that was, that can cause kids to run away from home and fortunatly for her, if she ever does'nt want to live under that roof she has a home with me. He is no doubt one of these 'my house my rules' fellows.
anyway, we have a magazine at home with an article on burlesque performers in Oz, one being in melbourne who was raised as a JW and left it obviously. Her mother helps with the costumes nowdays, so i presume she never got baptised...something not lost on daughter (has read it) as i reminded her, if you dont get baptised they can't be made to shun you. It did lead to talking about how they practice 'marking', something she thought was pretty bad after i explained that if she was seen to be rebelious, other parents might mark her and not let their kids hang with her.
I do believe she is biding her time now, waiting for the right time. She still does not want to do the JW thing and i am glad that she is not getting depressed about it now. She now has coping skills and me to lean on. We talked on not just going with the JW flow as I did. I encourage her to see now as the time in her life to sort this stuff out, but not to 'hurry', just quietly work it out. We talked about not getting 10 or 15 years down the road before acting on her teenage questions and desires. Her brother will do that, and i dont want that for her.
I just wanted to let those interested to know how things are with them. I am so proud of them both, even if he never listens. My girl is so brave and has had the guts to open up to me. When i told her this, her smile could have powered a city for a month.
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Thanks, promises
I'm ok about the boy, I just want his happiness, even if it is at my cost. His girl makes him happy as does his plans so thats all that matters. If his life turns to crap one day because of the JWs i will be there to help pick up the pieces.
And sizemick, I am sure she'll 'rebel' in her mothers eyes but in mine she's just wanting to be her authentic self. Just as well they can't stone her!
If you have kids locked inside the WT, dont ever give up.
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One day, i hope my threads might help other members sort through their own minefield of parenting JW teens...
I hope i do ok you know, i realize there is no certainty but i will always know i gave it my best shot. Sometimes i wish i had stayed with their mother so i could have seen them all the time, but i know inside that i was such a screw up way back when that i may not even be alive today for them if i had.
I will have to talk to the boy next time i see him about the so called 'unequal yoking' situation, as well as, frankly, some stuff he tells me about them together could now be used to disfellowship her if they are not really really careful. Cue an old chat we had about this situation...
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My daughter is 80 pages into COC.
It will probably take a few visits to get through it. I let her know that it speaks of things before her time, but that i was 'in' back then and remember some of the things written about.
She already thinks they lie and that some things 'don't add up'. Desperatly wants to be a normal kid.
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It is my daughters access visit with me this weekend. She called me the other night to make a change. She asked if i didn't already have plans for her, could she go to a BIRTHDAY PARTY over the weekend. That means the visit is rather short as its a sleepover too, at a 'worldly' school friends place.
Now, it goes without saying, i said of course!.
Now, i figured that their was no way her mother knows about this. So i figured this is on the sly and asked her (daughter) whether her mother knew...
YES. She actualy got to see the invitation, asked her if she wanted to go and gave approval.
You could have knocked me down with a feather!
My girl says her mum is not hardcore JW. That family is such a paradox...
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She also came home and presented me with a Birthday card for my belated b/day!
way to go daughter!
Stick that up yer bums watchtower!
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I found out the other day that my daughter began to question the existance of god, decided that the issue of universal soveriegnty is nonsense and that praying is useless....At 10!
So glad i didnt know! Because back then i was still an apologist and would have been bothered that she was leaning away from the JW teachings. And now? Sad that the poor kid has had 4 years of confusion and inner turmoil before dear old dad wised up and started asking the right questions. Four years of feeling like there is something wrong with herself, feeling she is doomed to die.
And thru all that time her mother has been as thick as two short planks...and still has no idea who her daughter is.
Oz the delighted
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Part of the conversation the other day was regarding the GB.
She wanted to know why her mother could not be as 'open minded' as me. Recently her mother had a stand up fight with her bethelite sister over her unruly younger children, she was told not to bring those kids next time they came to visit their ill mother (now deceased). I explain that pretty much the bethel people live in an isolated world, far from reality and have no time for kids, esp noisy little ones.
The problem i told daughter was that her mother was following parenting advice from the GB, a bunch of real old men who have never had children, who live in similar ignorance to the real world like her auntie.
The GB telling JWs how to raise and relate to children is the same as her auntie giving parenting advice to her sister. I expalined that the reason her mother could not be open minded was that she has had 45 years of being programed to be closed minded, that it is not realistic to expect nor hope that a life time of believing that openminded equals Satan will be changed for her.
I tell you, i put a few nails in the GBs coffin that day!
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Saturday was a great day for talking about the WT and the JWs. She is really open and honest about her feelings now she has found an ally in me. I am very careful about how i do this stuff.
I am fighting a battle for her right to life as she sees it.
The JWs will win over my dead body, they will get my son i think, but not the daughter.
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What bothers me is that by the time he wakes up he may well be married to his liitle hottie and then the fallout will be neuclear...
Allthough i must add, lately he has been talking of not getting married till mid twenties.
one can only hope!
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Been a while... i shy away from posting about them now as i feel i am sort of invading their privacy!
Ok... most know that daughter has expressed to me that she does not believe nor want to be a JW. We had her for new years eve and took her to our local pub for the towns traditional party. Half the town turns up for it. She dressed as her authentic self. Not conservative at all. she had a ball. She looked a little nervous when she came out of her bedroom as this was the first time she had actually styled her hair how she wants.
We took her away for most of a week to NSW and again, she expressed herself how she is inside. I think she found it oh so freeing to do this. We have quite a few long deep chats these days about life and the JWs. She has started reading COC and took it awy with her (she didnt read any but at least the thought was there) The week was also spent with her grandfather on my side, and she was all ears as we were discussing how my wife and i got together, and how my life was as i exited the Jws. The week away in the 'world' wa sgreat for showing her that a whole different life was out there for the taking, widen the veiw for her.
She feels that i make her stronger in her resolve because i know how she feels. At home she has to tone it all down. Last chat we had was about what the next 12 months will be like for her and how if she is going to stay at her mums home then she needs to fly under the rader and often bite her lip. To expect that the posters she bought while away of metal bands are not likely to be allowed on her bedroom wall and to expect it. If he expects it then it will be easier to handle without conflict if it happens. Her focus i think will be on pushing the boundaries but hopefully not enough to have her mother pull her out of her school. She has not been dragged door to door for many months apparently.
She recently gave a talk in the non existant 'school' about the purpose of life. naturaly about the JW view. I asked her about her personal veiw on the meaning of life, which was, to make the most of our time. Asked how she felt giving a talk so obviously opposite her own beliefs she shrugged and said ''i just say the words''. (mother probably wrote her notes)
I really think that all going to plan (her plan) she will announce her rebellion at 16.
My son is well, a lad! Full of joy and party. Loves to get away with his mates (some jw, some fringe dwellers) and drink lots of alcahol as well visit many night clubs of 'sin'. I do worry for him because the day of reconing is coming. He will want to marry his Jw girl and i can see him suddenly making a huge effort to be 'good'. You know what i mean. On the other hand he has a great opportunity to work away for a year and if he gets too i hope this will be wake up time. Unfortunatly, i think his arsehole of a JW boss is using him and leading him on to keep a hard working boy on low pay. If i ever meet the guy i am likely to verbally assault the bastard. Our city has a history of JW construction 'brothers' who operate on the edges of the law. I know what i want to happen to this shmuck. rant over.
Overall i think i will end up one in, one out.
I think her mother is a bit ignorant of her daughter and it seems the step father is the one she has to get around more. another gutless schmuk (i like the word). I told daughter that if i was still a JW and her regular dad, she would be so leaned on it wouldn't be funny. I can see the Jw warning bells her mother is ignoring it seems. Sis glad i am not JW thats for sure.
I told her that i want to see her live her full potential and that anything she wants to do or acheive in life is kool with me, and that unless a partner is a (schmuk) then i stay out of it... and if you ever take drugs thats when you will know i have a problem with ya! expect a good slapping so to speak.
She seems quite interested in the WWC case, being as i talk about it and how i almost went to the last court date. she asked if i went and what happened.
I was having a look thru her note book from one of the conventions... a few scriptures scribbled here and there. asked about her notes she said 'they mean nothing, just trying to stay awake....further in was a drawing done again i guess to stay awake...a goats head with a pantagram! Like whoa girl! way to get grounded at an assembly. she felt like pissing off mother but never let her see it.
This girl has very definite ideas about what she believes and what she wants to look like to the world. My job is to help her make it. While i don't get the music she listens to or some of her choices of films etc, i am not alarmed, well knowing that when i was her age, the music of my time was seen as 'off' by the oldies. What i do know, is that they are all not in the WT approved list thats for sure!
Thats about all i can think of for the moment...if its a bit messy, sorry, i am typing as i think, and thats not always straight.
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It is my most sincere wish that by posting these updates, others here and those yet to come may find them and see how i handled it all.
and if that helps someone in their journey with children it will be well worth it.
thankyou for the encouragement.
I once thought i would have a very distant relationship with my kids and in fact was prepared to make it so, in order for them to get to the 'paradise'. It is 100% due to the support and information here that i have what i have, this is the only real way i can give back.
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She announced to me that she is tired of having to pretend to all jws and at home.
She left a note to her mother, under her pillow (her pillow, not her mothers) in the 'sort of hope it will be found' type of way. Basically she spelt out that she has not believed for a long time and that if she is not going to be allowed to live there she will go to her fathers (me) to live. Also that i have known her feelings on this for a few months.
She thinks a 95% chance it will not be found. And is not bothered either way. My take is that it is a way to force the subject into the open without having to go to mum and speak out, rather a hope it will be found and then ''what will be will be''.
We spent a good deal of our weekend talking about the ways this may go down.
1. acceptance and allowed to not do any jw stuff at all.
2. very nicey nicey empathetic efforts to reach child and draw her closer to 'jehovah'.
3. our house our rules, foot down, get tough on her. change schools, tighter surveilance of her.
I explained very clearly that there will be little point in trying to explain just what she doubts and doesnt believe as they will not listen. In fact a teenager, not well versed in theocratic argument will be quickly made to look foolish and wrong.
I believe (by the mothers body language at drop off) has found the note.
I really hope she is strong enough to be firm on what she wants and not get manipulated into a change of mind.
Yes of course there is, she has a home here anytime, and has known this for a long time.
Its just she wants to live with her mum and siblings but is realistic enough to know that it may not work anymore.
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I too thinks she is very brave.
The hard part is mine... i am pretty much out of contact for two weeks till our next visitation. She said ''no news is good news''... if i dont get a phone call from her to assume iether the note was not found or she is ok and handling things.
oz...wringing his hands and mentaly pacing...
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@newchapter...I see as a toe in the water. She was a bit ambivalant about it being found and i think it may have been more of a test of herself more than anything. Indeed, next time she might be bloder and put a note where it will be found.
@flipper...i am not worried other than the manipulation. I did explain very clearly how that might go and be done, based on what i know i would do if i were her JW parent.
@Quandry... thanks for the concern. I am not driving anything here. It was she who felt secure enough a few months ago to tell me what she felt. yes i had to dig for it but no more than any parent trying to figure out why their child wants to die. She is deciding the pace of her actions, i am only in reaction mode to her, when she tells me how things are going or like this note situation, i only lay out her options and help her prepare to deal with the consequences of her actons. What she is in no doubt of, is my unconditional love and support no matter what she decides.
@extemely confused17...she is 15.
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exciting times...
Son moved out of his JW home this week amid uproar from mother because he has follwed my advice about moving out and starting a new job. Visited him tonight in his new digs and he said: "Don't know if i am going to stay in the truth"...!
My advice was if that is what he wants to do then perhaps now is the time to not go to the new local hall and do a fade...
Daughter read animal farm for school and commented: "I can see a few similarities to the JWs in that story"...
My response was well, wait till you read 1984 darling! so she took my copy home to read too...
I see 'fun' this next twelve months. But not for the wicked witch of the north who is very quickly alienating her children. From her i see evil.
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thanks all
one is thinking with the small brain, the other with the big brain...
but the outcome may well be the same!
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My son came to visit today, he and i are getting a lot closer since he left his JW home and thanks largely to his mother and step father alienating him big time. He needs one of his parents to help him out at times and he can't turn to his mother. Thats sad but its her loss, and his i guess.
Anyway, he recently got himself a girlfriend, a worldly girl at that. Obviously he cant take her home to mum, but he brings her to us. This weekend i had my daughter and her best (worldly) school friend and my son and his girl here, it was like a real family!
The best part was when he said...''I am ready to hear whats wrong with the JWs''.
He hasnt been to a meeting for 4 weeks now and has started to realize the JWs are brainwashed (his own words). He has known he 'should' look at the religion but in the past has said he didnt want to listen, so this is BIG.
He wanted to know what i could give him to read 'right now'. The challenge is that like most JW teens, he knows bugger all about the beliefs of the Watchtower, i mean, seriously so uninformed that it's like i have to teach him a doctrine in order to demonstrate why its wrong! There is so much i could show him and i will take it easy!
So today i pointed him to JWFacts while i had to go out.
He read the sections about 'hitler' and 'Christmas/birthdays'. His main comment "They (JWs) tried to get in with hitler"
His other big comment today was regarding 'new light', he said "they always go on about that, but it makes no sense...why didnt god give them the right information from the start"?
Anyway, just wanted to share...
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He is in his 18th year, he dropped the JW girlfriend because he was sick of her having to hide him. She got baptized and he not being dunked meant she was not prepared for him to be known as her 'boyfriend'.
He met a few worldly girls and this one that he really likes and it has opened his eyes to say the least.
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Now to make sure he has direction in life. Its one thing to help them out but another to help them not self destruct from the discovery of the lie and freedom from the WT rules. In all honestly i would rather them in the JWs than fucking themselves on drugs or stupid living if you know what i mean! They do show a bit of a propensity to party hard...he drinks hard and i know he has tried weed.
anyway, i am planning a father/son weekend away because he needs to come to grips with a lot of stuff to do with not only the lie, but his sense of loss over his mother and i divorcing, how to function in a normal world, the type of good decisions to make etc etc...
tonight i made him call his mother (she found out about the weed). She was hysterical, and it was the first time she had spoken to me in years and it was to ask me to deal with it. I did, nuff said! But perhaps the best thing was that he fessed up to his mother that he no longer wanted to be JW. She told him that she suspected so for a while and that all she wanted was for him to be happy and safe. A huge relief for him i can tell you.
I am excited and scared at the same time for my two kids.
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Yes, they know 'good' jws who are doing all the drugs etc, at least they tell me everything, i value the dialogue i have got going with the kids.
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ok, as many know i have a daughter (15) lives with mother and step father (arsehole)
she was told "remove your ear stretchers by thursday or be kicked out". She has refused to remove said ear decoration. Should she regard herself as kicked out and come live with me? Has her step tool made the dicision for her by this ultimation? Can I consider her kicked out and just tell her that has happened and take the load off her?
she does want to move here but is just so torn by it all.
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yes it is tme for a change. The house has become toxic to tenn trying to be accepted. Last year she was in a real dark place thanks to the JW rules and frankly i have had enough of seeing what i amount to abuse.
I understand Baltar, But it is a whole lot more than the ears really, they are just the fuse.
The ears and other things have been playing out in a JW household, not on my watch. Personally, i believe there a are lot more important things to teach teenagers than the way they choose to look. Perhaps post JW i am a lot more liberal, i am not in the conservative basket myself being tattooed and being rockabilly, so they are not an issue for me, tatts yes, ears no.
BUT, getting back to the question: Should she regard herself as kicked out and come live with me? Has her step tool made the dicision for her by this ultimation? Can I consider her kicked out and just tell her that has happened and take the load off her?
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she wants to stay with me, just finds it hard to verbalize it, she is now with me for her weekend visitation. will see how this plays out...
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To update all...
On friday after i picked her up she told me she wanted to live with me now. I have been preparing for this for a while really, and have been aware of the stuff scully mentioned: (thanks scully for putting it very neatly)
To answer your question though, prepare to have her move in with you. Clearly she does not want to abide by JW rules, and her mum and step-father want to shove those rules down her throat. Have a sit down with her prior to her moving in and make it abundantly clear that while you are far more liberal than her mum and step-father, you are concerned about her safety and, as jamiebowers said, will not tolerate drug or alcohol abuse, you expect her to be responsible for her overall well-being (eating disorders) and particularly so when she is sexually active (birth control) and she has to take school seriously. Set curfews for her, give her chores and an allowance, and once she's old enough to get a job, she should get one.
and yes, i see kicking out reserved for real rebellion with stuff such as drugs etc.
At her request i called her mother and told her the news then passed the phone to daughter to speak with her mum. It was a difficult call to make and left my daughter and her mother in tears. She will miss her little brother and sister very much and her mother asked to not be a stranger and can visit anytime. So thats a pretty good outcome. There are a few behind the scenes converataions that took place over the last month, thing both her mother and step father d=said that led to the move.
I look forward to being a full time dad and will do my best to keep steering her in life. Stay tuned...
thankyou all who commented on what is a challenging situation
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Had a phone call from my son today...
He rang his JW mother to give her some news and found out the school his little half siblings go to was having an end of year play. He was pretty excited apparently and asked if he could come along and this is how it went...
"NO, it is for family. For our family not for children who never speak or visit us."
his reply?
"Fuck you"
hang up.
So sad. This woman has no idea. When our daughter finds out she will be even less inclined to visit than ever. She is just getting strong enough to write her mother to explain why she has not been visiting the last couple of months. I can see right now the reception she will get and the hurt I will have to repair...again
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boy is 19, left home and decided to not follow the religion. At least he is not baptized alothough it looks like his mother is writing him off anyway.
on a happier note, he is about to celebrate xmas for the fisrt time ever (with non JW girlfriends family) and he was pretty excited to tell me they had a 'pagan tree'!
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So here we are, putting decorations on our first pagan tree and 15 yr old daughter doing her first 'xmas' says....
"so what IS xmas all about?.......
WTF! Her JW mother and step father get another EPIC FAIL.
They have taught the children NOTHING. It's a god damn miracle the kids learnt to dress themselves. Ok, a bit of an exaggeration but seriously, what self respecting JW parent teaches them nothing about their beliefs and yet expects them to blindly follow? oh...thats how it works isn't it...
Oz scratching head in wonderment...
Son was up visiting today and we had some great little chats about all things watchtower. I would say the chances of him going back are real slim now, for he was telling me of some of his own WTF research on the internet about them.
Anyway, at one point he came up, gave me a big hug and said "thankyou for making me think"
It seems that all the little seed dropping and question dropping over the last 3 years really did work! It DID make him question the JWs and their hold on him and his sister. He did admit that he was at pain sometimes wondering why i was doing it though.
He related one event that really troubled him just a few years ago, he spoke to an elder and asked him, seeing that you say we will all be happy in the new system, and that my dad won't be there, how will i be happy? I will not be happy if dad is not there...Elders answer: Jehovah will just make it like that...trust jehovah. sons response to himself "what? is jehovah going to fill me with morphine or something?"
he called the JWS and the WT evil. An evil cult messing with kids minds and giving them nightmares.
anyway, lots of little reassuring stuff from him, he is loving his life out of the borg. I just wanted to share with those who may have teenagers trapped in there, dropping little hints that all is not well in WT land, and making them question, CAN WORK
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Thankyou all for the comments
this forum has given me life. All i can give back is my journey (as you will find under my posts) of my own awakening and the efforts to help the kids out. Perhaps i will find time to go thru all the posts and pull out the bits and snippets about the kids, its hard to remember all the little drops of questioning i used over the last 3 years or so.
Cantleave, more than happy for you to have reposted, i feel privleged even at the thought that i may in some little way help someone else one day.
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I have a question, how did you maintain communication? One of my kids runs hot and cold, sometimes we talk, other times he won't respond at all. With the other I have nothing, haven't for years.
I'd love to "drop seeds" as you say, but don't know how when I can't communicate.
My communication with the kids was limited to a visit once each two weeks. And it was very often for only a day. The ex had managed to manipulate access visits to bugger all time. There was no mobile phones for a long time. It was real tough at times wondering if they were even thinking about me inbetween visits even. and when they did come with a mobile phone, it was their mothers spare and i was forbidden to even know the number.
Once the boy had his drivers licence i saw him maybe every 3 weeks for a day. By that time i had secured 2 days each 2 weeks with the daughter though. I felt i had lost the boy to the JWs at that time.
I remember each time i saw them i was on edge as i so desperatlry wanted to talk to them, to get into thier heads, it was easier with my daughter. My son tended to close off, at times he would say that he knows now (before baptism) is the time to question but he just does not want to.
He went through a fair bit of therapy that blamed all his problems on me. he did blame me for all his unhappiness at that time too, so that was tough to swallow.
Still, i didn't stop dropping hints about the JWs and asking little questions anyway. I also think that his step father and his mother did a great job of driving the kids away from them and the JWs. He started to get into trouble with the JWs for having worldly girlfriend and getting drunk, how they they treated him repelled him from them more, he saw plenty of hypocrasy around him.
all i did was the best with the time i had...and sometimes i just avoided talking about the JWs at all in case they got jacked off that everytime they came to visit it became an anti JW session and not about fun.
At the end of the day, all you can do is carefully use the time you do get and rely on the fact that the WT manages to retain fewer of its young ones than ever before to help you...
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OK! Thats 3 years of tears and joy all in one BIG thread. I sincerely hope others can use it. I am not sure i did everything right, but i do know i did everything i could think of. I can thank many here, and the existance of the board in itself for the great help they have been. I really mean it, If this board had not come to be, i dont think i would have rescued my kids.
And on a final for this thread...
today my daughter turned 16...and we had a big gooey cake with one huge candle. Symbolic of it being her 'first' birthday
OZ
Hey Aussie, I am incredibly moved by your story. I've got 2 kids, 13 and a 15 years. I was also raised with 1 JW parent, one opposed.
It sounds like you have done a great job "planting the seeds" so to speak, just by existing you provide an alternative, a link to the world beyond the org.
I would say your greatest power comes from just being a dad, if you know what I mean? This is what your wife is most afraid of. Sounds like your son is the typical teen, we don't see much of our son either!!!
I have noticed between my son & husband.....they are close, but my son is often very worried about letting his dad down, he interprets his dads advice as criticism.
My husband has no idea of the impact of his words, he only wants to help, I often need to mediate between them.
Maybe this is a natural part of child development, I don't know, but I think that it would be quite easy to drive a wedge between them at this stage in their lives. I'm not saying this is your situation, it's just something I've observed in my house, and from what I hear, a number of my sons friends have similar clashes.
What I do with my 13 year old daughter? In no particular order:
Swim, ice skate, bush walk, pedicure & manicure ( you go too! they will love having a man there, the massage chairs are divine!), high tea, snorkeling, bike riding, botanical gardens, colour run ( search the run guide on the net, they are on all year round, cheap & no age limits :) at least in NSW), yoga ( really good for future stress ), volunteer to walk dogs at dog shelter, art galleries & museums, fruit picking (open to the public days)
My husband also lets my daughter paint his nails....she loves this and spends ages designing something crazy. They also work together in the garage, they have made a dolls house, clothes racks, props for school plays ...lots of stuff. I forgot, my husband takes my daughter fishing, she loves it. She would love to ride horses, but, where we are it's too expensive, I know some places it's really cheap and a great option. Good independent book shops often run a range of kid themed events, get on their emailing lists...they have some great things.
I really hope for the best for you & your family, your kids sound great, they will be OK & so will you! Don't forget to look after yourself....you are a great dad and they are lucky to have you....
Thank you for compiling this...
Thank you for compiling this...
Just finished your Epic.
Enjoyed it immensely. For exdub exes, this will give so many helpful pointers. So sad how their mother has alienated them.
HB
Made me happy to see you have your children Oz...thank you for sharing. :)
