Canada To Let Quebec Go?

by metatron 82 Replies latest jw friends

  • Paralipomenon

    Quebec thrives in a minority government. They control a large chunk of of the federal vote.

    When there is a minority government, they can make demands to help the government pass legislature. They demand concessions in return for favortism.

    Essentially it is holding the rest of Canada hostage which is what embitters many Canadians against Quebec.

    As others have pointed out, they could not survive on their own. Frankly, Montreal would vote to stay in Canada and the Native lands would seperate from Quebec. For a province that demands cultural recognition, they have a horrible track record for respecting the native's rights.

    The values of Quebec are at complete odds with the rest of Canada. Canada respects all cultures, visitors and nationalities. Quebec respects Quebec. As others have mentioned, visiting Quebec (with the exception of Montreal) is largely a negative experience. You are treated like a second class citizen and riddiculed in many establishments. Most maritimers, when visiting Ontario, will travel through the US just to avoid Quebec.

    That is not a rich heritage, that is the attitude of a spoiled brat.

    It doesn't make up all of Quebec's population, but hits a sufficient density that it reflects poorly on the province as a whole. I personally think that New Brunswick best represents Canada's French culture. They are mostly a fully bi-lingual province (thus an extremely high density of call centres) Signs are in french and english and the population are just as happy to talk to you in either language as well. They have their own culture, but are Canadians.

    Each province has its own unique history and culture, it is the sum that makes Canada. It is a pity that many in Quebec seem to think their culture makes them superior to fellow countrymen and women.

    Frankly I really hope they do seperate. Sometimes you don't realize what you have until you lose it.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Quebec is a dictatorship. ...

    Totally untrue. The very fact that Quebecers can debate and vote in a referendum on separation is the proof that democracy works. In several Eastern European countries the very same issues resulted in wars and ethnic cleansing. I have yet to find anyone being deported from Quebec for voicing diverging political views and I have not found concentration camps for the evil "anglophone". Lady Lee even admits she was free to leave, although some of her basic human rights may have been baffled...I know French-only signage is such an annoyance...almost as bad as Chinese-only signage in Richmond BC or English only signs in the rest of Canada...I am also glad that she has found refuge in a province that uses the same form of government as Quebec.

    Ever tried walking down the street with a Canadian flag? Or flown one on your house? I won't even visit Quebec with anything that has a Canadian flag on it. Quebec has its own version of ethnic cleaning. Make the English as miserable as possible. make it extremely difficult to get medial help in English, force them to speak French whenever they step outside their door. Get rid of the language police that forbids signs from having English written on them or at the very least only allows it as long as it is harder to read and fines store owners for putting up Enlish signs in stores and in any advertizing.

    French only signage is more than an annoyance. It deprives people of their Canadian rights to services in English. I have been from one end of Canada to the other and seen French signs. Quebec loves to hold onto the myth that they can't read anything in their own language when they leave Quebec. It makes it much more difficult for tourists to get around and find what they need. That is big bucks but if they want it they have to make people feel welcome.

    A few years ago my husband and I were visiting my daughter in Laval (just north of Montreal) We went into a restaurant to order and we were refused service until my daughter spoke French. No way to treat visitors.

    As I sit here in Ontario I look around my apartment at things I have bought from stores here in Ontario. Every package, box, jar bottle and even DVD has both English and French on it and neither is smaller than the other. It was the same in Winnipeg and Victoria BC.

    As an English speaking person ever tried going to a St. John the Baptist day celebrations? It almost feels wrong to type that in English. It is meant to be a Frech only celebration and heaven helkp you if you speak English there.

    I would argue that Newfoundlanders have just as distinct a culture as Quebec - including a unique language.

    Another well documented comment here… and I guess the language you are referring to is Newfieneese. Along with First Nations and Britain, France is a founding nation of Canada and Quebecers have every right to preserve their distinct identity and language. Without a legal framework the French minority would simply vanish. Acadians had to flee to New Brunswick and as far as New Orleans to avoid religious persecution and save their culture and they have to constantly battle to remain a people. It is no different for Quebec.

    I have no problem with the Quebec desire to preserve their idnetity. But they don't have to trample the rights of other people to do it. That is just nonsense that their culture would disappear if they allowed other people their rights. Hmmm now just what culture are they teaching to people who come to Quebec from Asia? Do you really think an Asian family will surrender their cultural rights to live the way they want when they leave their homes. Or Italian or Greek? All these immigrants develop their own communities and continue to live their own culture. The only time they have to deal with the Quebec culture is when they step outside their small cultural communities. They aren't adding anythign to the Quebec culture except to speak the French language as spoken in Quebec because it is a far cry from French from France.

    It's interesting that Lady Lee has pointed out how the average Quebecer has been kept under control. I thought that was only true of the Duplessis years, but on reflection - it is continuing.

    The average Quebecers was kept under control by the Catholic Church which in turn was in bed with Duplessis. For good French-Canadian Catholics sex was for procreation only which explains the very large families and the end result was that, except for one child who may become a priest or doctor, every other child would receive very little instruction. English-Canadian who were in majority protestants had smaller families and children benefited from a better education. With time English-Canadians held most of the managing jobs while less educated French-Canadians were mostly labourers. That slowly started to change in the 1960’s during “La révolution tranquile” of Jean Lesage. The Catholic Church gradually lost its hold on the population and, with smaller families, more of the children were able to pursue their education. Big money was no longer accessible by English-Canadians only. Today government and Church are totally separated and even school boards are non-denominational . The very fact that Quebec wants to attain independence is the evidence of a people fully emancipated.

    Gotta shake my head at this one. You do know we are in 2013 now? Right? You make it sound like a free education in Quebec was unheard of in Quebec until after 1960. Quebec has had the constitutional right to education for their population since 1867. YES 1867. The FRENCH Catholic Churches are what kept the French population under control. Not the English. But somehow the English are blamed for something they had absolutely nothing to do with.

    In 1852 Quebec got its first university, Laval University. Yes 1852. That was before they even had a constituational right to education the French population. Oddly it was the royal charter who founded the university.

    Did the English community prosper? You bet we did. But that wasn't our fault. We worked for it. And you make us pay for it over and over. Hence the great exodus of big business from quebec and into Ontario the States or anywhere else they could conduct business without jumping through linguistic hoops.

    Quebec does not want emanicipation. It wants a divorce with the rest of Canada footing the bill.

    Thank you jgnat for the charts...Quebec is not such a moocher after all!

    ah yes the money. Because that is what all this boils down to. Quebec wants the money but they want zero accountability for it. Right now the Canadian government gives provinces money to do certain things with - like education, health care, and pensions. When the Canadian govenrment gives money for specific things it wants to know that the province (all of the provinces, are spending the money for the reason it was given. Quebec doesn't want that. They want the money for sure. But they want to spend it the way they want to without having to account for where the money went.

    And no In this new century Quebec is not getting more than the other provinces although they are complaining about that. Equalization payments were always meant to be to help the less poor provinces come up to the standard of the more wealthy provinces. Quebec no longer falls into the cash poor provinces. In fact it is doing fairly well. The money now goes to the other provinces that need it. But Quebec will stomp its feet and whine and complain that they were trampled on by English Canada since 1867 and they need to be remunerated for it. Forever.

  • Finally-Free

    Go easy on Quebec. If it wasn't for them we'd have never heard of poutine or maple syrup pie.


  • Satanus

    Lets not forget 'eh', eh? It is said that we got eh from the french.


  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    I must admit I do love a good poutine and I miss them.

  • aposta-Z

    "Ever tried walking down the street with a Canadian flag? Or flown one on your house? I won't even visit Quebec with anything that has a Canadian flag on it. Quebec has its own version of ethnic cleaning. Make the English as miserable as possible. make it extremely difficult to get medial help in English, force them to speak French whenever they step outside their door." -Lady Lee

    Ok that is a lie. Plenty of people display canadian flags. You just sound bitter because you do not have the ability or the will to learn a second language.
    Being pro-French does not mean being anti-English.

    Ethnic cleaning???? Gimme a fucking break!

  • NVR2L8

    Lady Lee...

    What can I are 100% right...

    Your answer reminded me of a tactic used in a cult I was once part of. Instead of addressing the presented facts this cult would divert the debate into a different direction...then they would drown the issue in a wealth of non-pertinent information...and when this didn't work they would revert to personal attack...

    Not only you didn't read my comments put words in my mouth.

    My dad used to say that if you want to keep your friends you should avoid talking politics and religion...I should have listened.

  • perfect1

    As an American, with admittedly shallow thought about Canadian politics, i love Montreal!

  • Quarterback

    I love their steamed hotdogs, their poutine, the Montreal Smokemeat, and bagels.

    Steven Harper just pledge some money for they infrastruture in Levi, Quebec.

    I think they might repent, and stay with us. But, then again we are living in the last days. You know what that means for Quebec

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    excuse me. I am half French. Did you read that my mnother didn't spoeak English until she was 16? Did you read that my grandmother, uncles and aunt all livind in Montreal for decades? They all spoke French as did my step-father. Did you read that my family can trace its roots back to the late 1500s - all them from France? Did you read that I took and passed college level French courses?

    I also spent 2 1/2 years in a French language congregation. I have no problems with the French people, their lnaguage or their culture. I do have a problem when some people are marginailized even through they have every legal right to full citizenshias Canadians.

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