I am looking for rebuttals on this statement. I find it reprehensive when they preach this from the platform, they do not want JWs (who are individuals) to have any individuality. They want people to be their personal robots with no free will. What would you say to a JW or an elder if they were to accuse you of having an "independent spirit/attitude" using both the bible and reason?
Rebuttals for having an independent attitude or spirit.
by Emery 30 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
mrsjones5
Thank you.
-
ldrnomo
I would tell them, it's called free will. and tongue in cheek I would then add it's God's gift to us.
-
wasblind
An independent spirit ain't bad at all
It's good to go to the bathroom by yourself
.
-
Pterist
**** having an "independent spirit/attitude" using both the bible and reason?******
Having the above requirements and an enquiring mind! made me leave my birth faith of the RCC, and Also made me leave false end time chronology of the WBTS when I was fully informed of the facts. However, I'm NOT leaving Jehovah or his Christ, just error !
You are continuing to be a good Beraen and making sure of ALL things, hold onto what is good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine, 1 John 4:1 Beloved ones, do not believe everyinspired expression, but test the inspired ...
Shalom
-
Amelia Ashton
They didn't like my independant spirit of not needing a man either.
-
OUTLAW
What would you say to a JW or an elder if they were to accuse you of having an "independent spirit/attitude" using both the bible and reason?
If God wanted JW`s to Think for Themselves ..
He would have Given them a Brain..
..................................
... OUTLAW -
OccupyJehovahsWitnesses
An interesting question.... I think if truly entrenched witnesses were able to listen, to actually use reason like the rest of us, they probably wouldn't be witnesses, lol.
I personally would have a hard time even engaging in such a conversation, as in my opinion, their bible basis for everything is moot because of the realities of the bible itself. And no witness will EVER admit the NWT is bunk, let alone the bible itself being less than the lifelong guide book they all live and die by.
On the reasoning side, it seems pretty simple to me. If jehovah wanted us all to be robots essentially, he would have created us that way. (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth....) He certainly wouldn't have given us all the range in personalities and emotions that he has. Literally, in our DNA, we're not all the same. Why would he purposefully make something more difficult for us if that's not what he really wanted? After all, it was Satan and Eve that have gifted us with our difficult situation in these last days, right? That certainly wasn't Jehovah. He's simply letting their bad decisions play out.
So why would be purposefully create such an obstacle, that makes service to him that much more difficult?
(oh man.... I feel nauseous now, gross)
And THAT'S why you'll never have a true debate about such things with a witness. Because it opens up other doors that they don't want to look in. Once you start looking at things from a rational perspective of what a god with such power would actually do, you start to see all the holes in that kind of perspective of "god" period.
Its a slippery slope for a witness.
-
Bobcat
A few years ago I had a public talk - I think it was, "Submission to Authority Brings Rewards" or something like that. (Actually, I still have the outline on my PC somewhere.)
Any ways, I must have been in the process of waking up because a subsection of the talk railed against "independent thinking." I distinctly remember this part not sitting well with me, that it was a very unbalanced presentation of the idea. Sure, "independent thinking" could be carried to an extreme, but so could the opposite, "dependent thinking."
I used 1 Corinthians 13:11 (quoted below) and reasoned that we all need a certain amount of "independent thinking" as we grow into adults. Then I warned about the dangers of taking the idea too far. The reasoning involved the idea that "babes" are completely dependent. So, growing up meant acquiring some independence in our thought processes.
It was interesting to see the audience reaction. As I first mentioned the "need" for some independent thinking, I could feel the audience recoiling a little at the suggestion. But they seemed to settle down with the idea after I completed the reasoning I was using. No elders approached me afterwards. (I can't remember if the talk was at home or away.)
Take Care
(1 Corinthians 13:11) . . .When I was a babe, I used to speak as a babe, to think as a babe, to reason as a babe; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the [traits] of a babe.
-
DJPoetech
I feel the watchtower's definition of independent when it relates to others carries a negative connotation. Their independent relating more to defiance or rebellious. It's almost like they are using the word but twisting the definition. If they were to call it anything else, it would clearly show how unbalanced their view is. Independent in itself doesn't carry any negative or positive meaning. It is a state of being which could refer to a person, a creed, a function, or whatever. The word itself is innocuous. Watchtower just loads it up like a baked potato!
... OUTLAW