How do apocolytpic cults start?

by EntirelyPossible 62 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    I was doing some reading on Jonestown recently, which led me to some reading on the Branch Davidians and the Heaven's Gate folks.

    It seems to me (and this is the part I want to discuss) doomsday or apocolyptic cults all share some common characteristics:

    - Secret knowledge of am impending disaster

    - Their survival if they follow the messages from a higher source that their leader receives

    - Insulation from the outside world (either mentally and/or physically)

    - A charismatic leader that appeals to the desires of the followers

    - Proclaiming the death of all or most outside of their group

    - A sense of tension due to the impending doom (that never seems to happen)

    - Lack of a sense of history (this has happened before)

    - Lack of critical thinking

    - Merging of pseudo science with religious dogma

    I am sure there are others, but those are the ones that stuck out to me. Some doomsday preppers fall into this category, the Branch Davidians were an offshoot of the Millerites (JWs kissin cousins), Heaven's Gate believed in FTL travel and aliens.

    Thoughts?

  • cofty
    cofty

    I watched a documentary on Jonestown a few weeks ago. It was really chilling how almost mundane the path to the final disaster was.

    A sense of us v them was fomented by the leaders. It was this that made the suicides possible.

    Once Congressman Ryan had been shot it was the "they will come and get us for this" message that instigated the end.

    The same mentality existed at Waco.

    It concerns me that the Watchtower's retreat to their new HQ will lead to a greater seige mentality.

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    EP, as you know I'm not an WTS apologist, although I'm still a member. I don't think your post tries to apply this to the JW's, but in any case ... In my view:

    a) Secret knowledge of am impending disaster - This doesn't fit the JW's. They have been printing loads of literature about this and the Armaggedon has been part of the teaching of the JW's since very early. It's not a "secret knowledge".

    b) Their survival if they follow the messages from a higher source that their leader receives - The first part is true. Salvation depends from following instructions from a higher source. However these aren't conveyed in secrecy to the "leader" (the GB) because they find base their doctrine in the Bible, a very public book.

    c) Insulation from the outside world (either mentally and/or physically). Partially true (mentally), not true (phisically).

    d) A charismatic leader that appeals to the desires of the followers - Completely untrue with the JW's. Their leadership since Russell and Rutherford became much less leader-centered. Instead or appealing to the desires of the followers, the GB seems determined to supress the desires of the followers. Unless you may consider "living forever on a paradise on earth" one such desire. In that case, I would agree in principle. But I think the author didn't have that in mind.

    e) Proclaiming the death of all or most outside of their group. True. Although it has been toned down recently, it is still the official doctrine.

    f) A sense of tension due to the impending doom (that never seems to happen). The hype around 1914, 1925 and 1975 momentarily corresponds to this, but without a given date-target, the JW's are much more relaxed about "the end".

    g) Lack of a sense of history (this has happened before); Yes, and no. They constantly give past examples (the Deluge, the two destructions of Jerusalem) as examples of "end of systems of things". On the other hand, they claim thatArmageddom will be unlike any other event in past history.

    h) Lack of critical thinking. hmmmm ... There IS critical thinking inside the JW's. But it is often supressed. Doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

    i) - Merging of pseudo science with religious dogma. True. I cringe when I read things like "TRUE science agrees with the Bible". Huh?

    So, JW's don't meet important criteria in your list. Unquestionably SOME of the criteria, but not all.

    Eden

  • Tater-T
    Tater-T

    how do the END... ??

    badly ...very badly...

  • cofty
    cofty

    EdenOne instead of thinking like a JW apologist try looking at the list again and see if you could be more objective.

    You are wrong - or at best biased - on every count.

  • doofdaddy
    doofdaddy

    In my opinion the main reason these cults form is because there are people out there who don't want to live in this world for what ever reason. It is this sense of doom, that life is too difficult and that a super parent is needed to take life's responsibilities away that is the fuel that a psychopath can mould into a mindless following.

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    cofty

    "biased" goes both ways. If I'm biased towards the Jehovah's Witnesses, you are justas biased against the Jehovah's Witnesses. You can also be objective about that. And, let's be honest.... I gave JW's a good 6 out of 9 in EP's scale of apocalyptic cults.

    Eden

  • Tater-T
    Tater-T

    did anyone see this one on Nat Geo

    http://www.communityofjesus.net/insideacult.html

    I remember watching and seeing the similarities to JW's right away

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/07/arts/television/07cult.html?_r=0

  • LostGeneration
    LostGeneration

    a) Secret knowledge of am impending disaster - This doesn't fit the JW's. They have been printing loads of literature about this and the Armaggedon has been part of the teaching of the JW's since very early. It's not a "secret knowledge".

    I would call it "special Knowledge", not secret for the JWs. They have their own event timeline from the destruction of false religion, to the Great Trib, to Armageddon. And only they know how to interpret Revelation, Ezekiel, Daniel...etc

    b) Their survival if they follow the messages from a higher source that their leader receives - The first part is true. Salvation depends from following instructions from a higher source. However these aren't conveyed in secrecy to the "leader" (the GB) because they find base their doctrine in the Bible, a very public book.

    Fits JWs perfectly, only if you are in the org and "doing enough" according to the FDS will you survive.

    c) Insulation from the outside world (either mentally and/or physically). Partially true (mentally), not true (phisically).

    Very insulated, while the physically can be debated, they avoid friendships with worldlies and call them down all the time, so it does the job

    d) A charismatic leader that appeals to the desires of the followers - Completely untrue with the JW's. Their leadership since Russell and Rutherford became much less leader-centered. Instead or appealing to the desires of the followers, the GB seems determined to supress the desires of the followers. Unless you may consider "living forever on a paradise on earth" one such desire. In that case, I would agree in principle. But I think the author didn't have that in mind.

    The one leader is replaced by committee. While they have the personalities of a rock, they are still fawned over at DCs, treated like rock stars. I'm still amazed at some of the lines I saw after conventions to meet/take a picture with an old man.

    e) Proclaiming the death of all or most outside of their group. True. Although it has been toned down recently, it is still the official doctrine.

    Toned down? Example please.

    f) A sense of tension due to the impending doom (that never seems to happen). The hype around 1914, 1925 and 1975 momentarily corresponds to this, but without a given date-target, the JW's are much more relaxed about "the end".

    Another lie, relaxed about the "end"? Thats all they talk about! Though it is pretty stupid to have an end date of "soon"

    g) Lack of a sense of history (this has happened before); Yes, and no. They constantly give past examples (the Deluge, the two destructions of Jerusalem) as examples of "end of systems of things". On the other hand, they claim thatArmageddom will be unlike any other event in past history.

    JWs are idiots when it comes to history. I know because I was one. No clue as to how bad things have really been on this earth in times past. And when you think Cedar Point conventions are an important part of world history....well I rest my case...

    h) Lack of critical thinking. hmmmm ... There IS critical thinking inside the JW's. But it is often supressed. Doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

    That doesn't even make sense. Its like telling the ladies that there is a 12 inch penis supressed inside my body, but it still exists!

    i) - Merging of pseudo science with religious dogma. True. I cringe when I read things like "TRUE science agrees with the Bible". Huh?

    Ok, you got that one right.

  • undercover
    undercover

    Secret knowledge of am impending disaster - This doesn't fit the JW's. They have been printing loads of literature about this and the Armaggedon has been part of the teaching of the JW's since very early. It's not a "secret knowledge".

    This knowledge is revealed only to the leaders of the JW religion, i.e. the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class, these days just the GB. The ones who dispense spiritual food at the right time. Without their private pipeline from Jehovah, this knowledge would not be available. And they don't mind letting all their followers know just how fucked they'd be if they don't follow their lead. So ... yes it does fit the JWs.

    Insulation from the outside world (either mentally and/or physically). Partially true (mentally), not true (phisically).

    If you wanna nitpick it from a literal sense, then no, JWs are not physically insulated from the outside world...that is, they aren't hogtied in a compound basement, never allowed to step outside and be seen.

    But - since JWs are forever warned and counseled about the evils of the world, and associating with worldly people, they are in a sense being insulated, not only mentally but physically. By instilling fear of worldly events, people, activites, JWs tend to isolate themselves from the world around them to a large degree. So ... yes there is a form of physical insulation from the world.

    A charismatic leader that appeals to the desires of the followers - Completely untrue with the JW's.

    This one is a bit tricky when it comes to JWs. Since Russell and Rutherford, they haven't had a charismatic leader, and they have over time focused on a leadership group, instead of one man. While there is no Jim Jones, or David Koresh, that is charismatic, the leadership does appeal to desires of the followers, in telling them they can live forever, be saved from destruction, etc. They appeal to a delusional longing of being special and different than the world around them. While not charismatic, they appeal to the followers by making all of them feel special by being in association with the "brotherhood" as led, conveniently enough, the very men who just told you they were being used by God.

    A sense of tension due to the impending doom (that never seems to happen). The hype around 1914, 1925 and 1975 momentarily corresponds to this, but without a given date-target, the JW's are much more relaxed about "the end".

    They aren't relaxed. They're just more confused. The WTS has stumbled and haven't found a way to keep the sheeple focused on 'the end', but there is a sense of tension. How many dubs go 'round saying, "this world is so bad. I'll be glad when the new system gets here and solves all our problems". Procrastinating and avoiding problems to the point of expecting some invisible entity to take care of them for you is bound to create tension.

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