TS,
What reason did the CO give for not recommending the super-MS?
2+2=5 cited this fact about the shrinking amount of elders. Perhaps the coming implosion?
by wha happened? 86 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Newly Enlightened
Don't know for sure, but this is what happened to my husband. He was a regular pioneer and a MS, but had an elder use him in a lie [ without us knowing at the time] to get our cong P.O removed. My husband spoke up and exposed the lie. It's very interesting that within a year, this same strategy was applied again to get the same P.O removed. Finally a new CO came in, removed the PO himself, moved a service overseer elder over from a neighboring cong. then announced to the cong. that HE had made some changes and for us as a cong to pray that it works and the cong gets Jehovah's blessing. Then the new service overseer [who was now in the 'Boy's club' of the new CO] attempted to use my husband in another lie to get the book study out of the now removed PO's home. When my husband challenged their lies, we were hauled in front of 12+ elders, who encircled us with their chairs and accused US of apostasy because we dared to challenge authority and shortly after they tried several attempts to remove my husband from his position. [It's interesting that we walked away from this meeting without even private reproof]
Point I'm trying to make is that: Maybe they only want YES men, spiritual qualifications and hours don't matter unless you're a 'Brown noser';
Does any one know the difference between a 'Brown Noser' & a "Butt kisser" ?????........Depth perception
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Theocratic Sedition
TS,
What reason did the CO give for not recommending the super-MS?
He didn't feel the brother's field service time was diversified enough and something else that I can't relate here because my cover would be in jeopardy. Let's just say that the other reason the CO didn't recomend him was due to an issue that IS NOT a sin, but not something the WT necessarily approves of, nor encourages. Matter fact, the WT goes out of it's way to discourage what this brother had done. (let he who has understanding.....) That said because of this issue that I can't identify for you(you probably know what it is), there was some questions related to this brother's freedom of speech on this unidentified subject.
As far as the brother's field service time, again, he and his wife average more time than most of the elder body. The CO asked the secretary for his card during the meeting, and starting going through the numbers. He noticed the bible studies and then said something to the effect that one of those studies don't count because it's with his family. The he started doing a theoretical breakdown of this brother's hour average. I wish I hadda taped it so I could have relayed all of it here because it was truly disturbing. He started dividing the brother's average by the four weekends in a month, and doing the same as he did with the brother's family study in that he considered some hours to be irrelevant. It was really sad considering most of the elder body don't have bible studies outside of what they do with their family. Most of the elder body's hours in field service if held under scrutiny would appear flimsy if held to the same bar this CO was in expectation of.
In hindsight, I'm happy this brother didn't get appointed because I fear it would diminish both his and his' wife's happiness. Another thing I'm glad about is, it's made elder meetings end quicker. The body is now on the same page that if this brother couldn't get appointed and he was the cream of the crop, then why bother wasting hours on a Monday night debating the rest of the servants? Sad, but true. That's Corporate Christianity for you.
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Borges
More than the fact, that the amount of elders is shrinking, the fact, that so many ex- or still active elders are here on the board is a sign , that the system of the JW is maybe not about to collapse, but bleeding out more and more.
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wasblind
Point I'm trying to make is that: Maybe they only want YES men, spiritual qualifications and hours don't matter unless you're a 'Brown noser';_____N E
who'd a thunk it !!!!!!!
and I was told these men were appointed by holy spirit
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konceptual99
Pyramid and the others have it 100%. The top down, legalistic, technical approach is the Achilles heel. Our new CO is adamant that appointed men have to exceed the congregation average. Heads will roll if they don't.
I know at least four other servants who simply don't agree and are discouraged by this approach. No elders there then...
It's a case of toe the line or ship out. This could backfire big time...
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sir82
The he started doing a theoretical breakdown of this brother's hour average. I wish I hadda taped it so I could have relayed all of it here because it was truly disturbing. He started dividing the brother's average by the four weekends in a month, and doing the same as he did with the brother's family study in that he considered some hours to be irrelevant.
This would have been an interesting argument to bring up with that CO after all his analysis:
"Excuse me brother CO, but I've looked all through 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1, and I can't find anywhere that it talks about the brother's field service time. In fact, I can't find any mention of any sort of ministry as a qualification for an elder. It's almost conspicuous by its absence. So why do we obssess so much on a brother's hours?"
The most likely response: "Flubber blubber bluster. Every Christian must be an evangelizer. Everyone. It's the most important work a Christian can do. An elder should be exemplary. If he isn't setting the lead in this most important work, he can't be an elder. It's so obvious that Paul doesn't even need to mention it."
And the reply: "Excuse me Brother CO but one off the requirements is 'husband of one wife'. Wouldn't that also be one of those 'so obvious it shouldn't even be mentioned' issues as well? Why would Paul state one obvious requirement but not mention a different one?"
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Londo111
marked
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Londo111
Note that the number of elders seem to exceed then number of ministerial servants in a congregation. In the 80’s and 90’s that was not the case.
Toward the end, I was a low-hour publisher. I was told, “Until you bring up your hours, you can’t have any ‘privileges’.” Nowadays, it is not uncommon for elders to be seen carrying mikes. Therefore, not only is there a lack of ministerial servants, there seems to be a lack of male publishers who measure up to the Society’s demands.
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Quendi
My personal experience with this was different from many other men. I was never encouraged to reach out. No elders ever told me they wanted me to serve. The only “privilege” I held was that of a pioneer. It was strange that I was good enough to be appointed a pioneer, but holy spirit couldn’t appoint me as a ministerial servant, let alone an elder.
I never asked for an explanation because I really wasn’t position-conscious. Maybe that was the problem: I didn’t actively campaign for an office nor did I go out of my way to volunteer for extra duties. At the same time, however, I was very intelligent, the best public speaker by light-years in the congregation, had a good education, and had great rapport with many of the publishers. I saw men who had far less ability than I holding these different offices.
Since I was a loyal Witness at the time, I put it down to Jehovah seeing something in these men I didn’t see. Looking back on it now, I know that much of the reason I never was recommended and appointed was simple jealousy and congregation politics. But I have no reason to complain because I’m sure I would not have lasted long as either a ministerial servant or an elder because I would have refused to engage in the kind of activities I would have been required to.
I don’t doubt that there were other men in the same position I was. We were constantly passed over because we weren’t perceived to be “company” material even if we better candidates than those who were already holding positions. Many qualified men have left the organization altogether and the quality of the pool of candidates has certainly diminished. No wonder there is a shortage and that shortage will only grow worse as time advances.
Quendi