A couple days ago a poster stated Britain has 12,675 elders and 9,646 M.S. Britain has 1,544 (according to WW Report) so that is 8 elders and 6 M.S. per avg. cong.
Curious if U.S. is about that also?
2+2=5 cited this fact about the shrinking amount of elders. Perhaps the coming implosion?
by wha happened? 86 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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MMXIV
In my local three congregations they had a fair few competent, hard working elders. Two of the congregations were steady role model types in the circuit. The third congregation had a slice of major corruption among the elders and the attendance halved at the hall. Not enough elders there to keep it going. They had to merge the congregations from three down to two. So the society chose to close the one with the largest savings funds as it happened. Funds that had been saved up over 40 years for a new KH. Now there is an interesting strategy...
mmxiv
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DATA-DOG
No one wants to be an Elder in my hall. The MS's that we have do only what they have to. Brothers with life experience and spiritual qualities who have circumstances that limit their visible service are not considered for recommendation. They cannot even be servants who are only used to care for territories and magazines and cleaning, and accounts, which most would gladly help with. This in turn puts more pressure on the few MS's because they have to do more.
We could easily have double the amount of servants in my KH if only scriptural requirements were the standard. A man can be spiritual but not perfect, or have the perfect stats. Then again a man can have an outward appearence of being spiritual, but get DF'd for sleeping around. Everyone believed they were more spiritual because they had higher hours in service, or were and Elder.
The top down legalistic and corporate attitude could very well cause the implosion that many want. It is their own fault. The WTBTS is a top down organization, so no one is to blame but the leadership. Here is a funny thought, since the GB did not even know who the faithful slave was for decades, or the superior authorities, ect.. How would those individuals stack up against their own rules for recommending a man for priviliges if an honest comparison were done?
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moshe
In the really old days, the original 1914 generation brethren just met to study the 'tower- they didn't need any elders- one of them took turns leading the discussion each week.
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WTWizard
Hopefully, it makes lots of extra work for the hounders. I hope they all die off or quit, and no one steps up to replace them. And, if they try that "If you don't reach out to become a hounder, you die at Armageddon" crap, I hope they get nothing but rubbish. Unless, that is, they are willing to have me coming in with a Ouija board and a bag of black candles. Or, if I am appointed around mid-October, they are willing to see a great big Christmas tree lit up on the platform with lights, tinsel garlands, Santa Clauses, and ornaments everywhere on the front lawn, the roof, driveway, entrance, lobby, and auditorium. And listen to Christmas music while waiting for the boasting session. Because if they are idiots enough to try and appoint me as a hounder, that's what they are getting.
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alfredjones100
I have to agree with this comment by Pyramid Scheme - "You could be a mix of Gandhi and Jesus Christ, but if you didn't have at least 10 hours of service, you were immediately dismissed" ... because thats how it was while i was serving on the body. It was pointless putting forward a person to the CO unless he was getting the country average which was generally about 10+ hours. And i think that this is the greatest weekness of the Society, in that they are and have always been a performanced based organization instead of a spiritual based one. Like's been said, if great teachers like the ones we read about in history were in our congregations, great men who could really stir the hearts of thousands, who really know the Bible and could explain it but for some reason did'nt make the 10 hours ... well ... its just too bad. But for those ones who are social climbers, ones who got connections and "friends", wether they can teach or not; they are fast tracked up. I seen it happen too many times.
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Satanus
'So the society chose to close the one with the largest savings funds as it happened. Funds that had been saved up over 40 years for a new KH. Now there is an interesting strategy...'
Kinda sad in a funny way, or is it funny in a sad way?
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finally awake
I wonder how many dubs will stop attending when small town congregations are merged. If the hall in my town were to merge, the next closest hall is 30 miles away. I can see a lot of drop off in meeting attendance for the elderly dubs in bad weather and for the night meetings. There are only 4 elders at the local hall, and only one MS who is younger than the elders.
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DATA-DOG
Also, I would agree with anyone who feels that merging congregations will be an upcoming trend. I know it's not new to merge, but when they can't pay their bills what choice will they have? Especially if people start leaving after 2014 and the next new light. I know sooo many younger ones who have left because they are not going to be duped by the WTBTS's flimsy explanations in the internet age. I think the WTBTS is desperate to finish their upstate retreat, brainwash the toddlers with videos and establish a foothold in Africa and other lands with low internet penetration. In the meantime the hispanic population can take over in the U.S. Add the 120 year Noah idea with a Catholic style hierarchy and you can plan on increasing your ranks from within. By the time the die hard caucasians get buried, and all the mentally diseased apostate partakers get kicked out, the next crop of JW.org slaves will be ready to go to work..
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Theocratic Sedition
Not sure if anyone mentioned this or not, but in the most recent one day elder school, either Stephen Lett or the chairman(I can't remember which) stated that 10,000 new elders have been appointed since the last one day school in 2011. I'm guessing that figure is world-wide as opposed to the U.S.. The congregation I'm at has plenty of Servants and Elders. Not lacking anything when it comes to numbers. We've got a handful of brothers who probably will be appointed Servants in due time.
On another note I'm under the impression that the bar is being raised on what type of MS qualifies to become an elder. Last CO we had shot down what I thought was a shoo-in. The guy is like a Ministerial Servant on steroids, super servant. CO wasn't trying to hear that. The meeting in itself was very telling as it created serious animosity within the body, or at least brought hidden beefs to the surface. To be fair to that CO, he stated that he's not going to bother writing a letter on this brother's behalf as he already knows what's going to happen. Didn't make an iota of sense to me as the brother in question is averaging higher hours than 75% of the body, has a couple bible studies, good speaker, loved in the congregation and the circuit, wife is exemplary and one of the most genuine people I've ever known,etc.. Didn't matter a bit to the CO at the time. I mention this because if it's true that the shrinking pool of potential elders is legit, and I imagine it is, some of the actions by the WT don't necessarily indicate to me that they feel it's a problem. That's despite what they've printed stating the need for more men.