This is just plain CRAZY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by wasblind 38 Replies latest jw friends

  • Lozhasleft

    I wrote a thesis based on the JW claim to martyrdom during the Holocaust. We visited Sachsenhausen last year. The bible students got the good jobs and were allowed into the village alongside to work in the officers homes. All prisoners received parcels from home, albeit scarce. Primo Levi's book tells of their determined faith in the Auswitch camp. That Rutherford encouraged this martyrdom after writing to Hitler agreeing with anti semitism beggars belief. Even Bible students kids were incarcerated for years. My study focussed on one Simone Liebster who hid under a bed daily to read a miniature bible while in a special reform school. She wouldn't sign a release either. The ones who did sign were usually mothers separated from their children by all accounts. No compensation for those, nor even a collective voice afterwards. Shocking.

    Loz x

  • wasblind

    Hitler was stopped by the military force of the Allies, not by JWs knocking on his door at Berteschsgaden._____Ding

    Tell it Ding

    Could you imagine tryin' to escape from bein' gathered up for extermination

    while a Jehovah's Witness come knockin' on your door askin' you to

    Bump your gums til the Kingdom Come


  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    I remember most of the old timers bragging how Jehovah stepped in and beat the Germans as they should have won the war.

  • wasblind

    Wow Loz,

    I'm learnin' more from the posters here than in the proclaimers book

    it ain't no surprise though

  • Lozhasleft

    I know, there are so many hidden stories. Primo Levi who wrote the famous "If this is a man" told how they were the strongest in the camps in terms of morale simply because they claimed to understand why it was happening to them, as opposed to the Jews and gypsies et al who felt abandoned by God. They also had the benefit of each others support. Others fought for survival at whatever cost to others. Trouble is the hegemonic collective memory of the JWs is dictated by the WTBS rhetoric so all stories sound the same, and it's almost impossible I'd say, to find any that speak against it. The survivors of course were given martyr status by the org and stories appeared in mags etc giving them special status. Some like Liebster, still travel around giving talks to schools etc in Europe about integrity keeping.

    Loz x

  • likeabird
    I'd recommend anyone to go to Sachsenhausen - especially in the winter. It is a humbling experience.

    I just came back from Auschwitz and Birkenau concentration camps and yes, winter is most definately the time to visit them.

    While everything said in the OP is "crazy", what is truly crazy (and all the other strong words that can be used to describe it) is this simple fact:

    Jehovah's Witnesses were not in the concentration camps because they were criminals.

    Nobody should have been in the concentration camps. The concentration camps should never have existed. But they did. And JW's were among the few that had a "choice" about being there. Only thing is the manic Rutherford decided it was a jolly idea to let them go there and what a "wonderful example of faith" that would be...

    There were two sections to the camps : the prison section (where the JWs were usually sent) and the extermination section. Standing there in the snow and deep of winter (it was freeeeeeeezing - and we were bundled up) I started to wonder if those sent to the latter section were not maybe the luckier of the two sections. And then we went inside the 'accommodation' which was not even fit for animals. (For those of you who will see that being alive is always better, my observations are given to show just how bad it was for them.)

    Letting the JWs go through this and making them feel guilty if they wanted to get out of it, while knowing fully well what they were going through... That's where the true craziness lies, plus the fact nothing has changed down to this day. Words really can't express it.

    To give you a small idea of what it was like, I made a short silent movie of my pictures I took at Auschwitz and Birkenau. Out of respect for the victims, we could not use flash, so while not all the pictures are of good quality, they each tell a story. The first half looks at things from the aspect of the prisoner, the second half from the aspect of those even less fortuneate. It is not for the faint-hearted. It is not nice to see. (Feel free not to watch it) But may we never forget what these ones went through.

  • likeabird
  • wasblind

    Thank you Likeabird

    They never taught us in history class at school that there were

    people in the camps by choice and who could leave anytime they wanted

    Until I seen it in the proclaimers book


  • DavePerez

    Well that explains it, then, with two sections of the camp.

    Because the idea of the captives destined for extermination inside being allowed gift baskets (parcels from home, esp during wartime famine) doesn't exactly jibe with the documentaries I've seen showing footage of victims being given cavity searches by Nazi guards to find hidden valuables, or even being disemboweled to retrieve swallowed items, the piles of eyeglasses, shoes, the mountains of pulled teeth containing gold fillings, or even lampshades made of the skin of the victims. ANYTHING of value that could be taken was. Horrific stuff.....

    So it sounds like even though the plight of the Bible Students was bad by virtue of being on the grounds, it sounds more like forced household servant labor and admin work, etc, thus living on a much higher level that those destined for extermination. After all, Bible Students were only wanna-be Jews, and more likely fellow Aryans, and not the real deal.

    But as stated, that would not be a picnic: there was a documentary about the Jews who survived by playing in the prison band that greeted those Jews destined for their deaths. Talk about a soul-crushing experience, having to play happy music to allay their fears and make group easier for the guards to control, fully knowing their fate (not to mention the inevitable survivor's guilt). But as Terry points out, it's pretty duplicitous for current-day JWs to take the credit for it (AKA historical revisionism), but who is to stand up and say otherwise?

  • sooner7nc

    One question I have always had about this subject is this; were you really free to just up and leave if you signed the renouncement form? I can't imagine a society as virulent as Nazi Germany simply forgetting about you if you signed it. I would imagine that many of those JWs knew this and figured it was better just to stay together. If anyone knows what happened if you signed the form please let me know.

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