Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-06-2013 WT Review (HUMILITY)

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  • blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-06-2013 WT Study (NOVEMBER 15, 2012, pages 10-14) (JESUS/HUMILITY)

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    “I set the pattern for you, that, just as I did

    to you, you should do also.”—JOHN 13:15.


    Finally a study article that seems to highlight Jesus. Why not God? What does the WTS teach about humility and God? Since the next article applies humility to imperfect humans, the WTS cannot use God as an example, humans cannot imitate God in this.

    *** it-1 p. 1159 Humility ***

    Jehovah God himself includes humility among his qualities. This is not because there is any inferiority on his part or any submission to others. Rather, he shows humility in exercising mercy and great compassion upon lowly sinners. That he deals with sinners at all and has provided his Son as a sacrifice for mankind’s sins is an expression of his humility.


    How did the Son of God manifest humility during his

    prehuman existence?

    As a human, how did Jesus display humility?

    What benefits have resulted from Jesus’ course of humility?


    1, 2. During the last night of his life on earth, what object

    lesson did Jesus teach his apostles?

    IT IS the final night of Jesus’ life on earth, and he

    spends it with his apostles in the upper room of

    a house in Jerusalem. During the course of the

    evening meal, Jesus gets up and puts aside his outer

    garments. He girds himself with a towel. Then he

    puts water into a basin and begins to wash the feet

    of the disciples and to dry them off with the towel.

    He then puts on his outer garments. Why did Jesus

    perform this humble act?—John 13:3-5.


    So can you imagine elders doing anything like washing the feet of anyone other than the CO, DO, or GB member? If that?

    *** w50 8/15 p. 271 Questions From Readers ***

    Hence Christians today should copy his example by being humble and ready to serve their brethren in practical ways, just as in Jesus’ day foot-washing was practical. Changed conditions have removed the practical benefits from foot-washing under those same circumstances, and it should not be done merely ceremonially.

    Could it be “practical” things like taking an older jw to the doctor, picking up their meds, helping clean their home, getting groceries and cooking a meal, helping with the laundry, having them over for a meal, giving rides to the assemblies/conventions. I never saw elders do this, they would always delegate to a “lesser one” like a sister or a brother trying to prove himself worthy for “special privileges.” The elders were too busy doing the more important things. It didn’t matter if the older jw was a brother either.

    2 Jesus himself explained: “Do you know what I

    have done to you? . . . If I, although Lord and Teacher,

    washed your feet, you also ought to wash the feet

    of one another. For I set the pattern for you, that, just

    as I did to you, you should do also.” (John 13:12-15)

    By displaying a willingness to perform such a lowly

    task, Jesus gave his apostles an object lesson that

    would be deeply engraved on their minds and would

    encourage them to be humble in the days ahead.


    So many jws say they would be willing to “die” for their brothers and sisters but not “live” for them. Does the WTS practice what they preach?

    *** Come Be My Follower (2007) cf chap. 17 p. 178 par. 13 “No One Has Love Greater Than This” ***

    Being willing to lay down our life for our brothers is not the only way to show self-sacrificing love. After all, few of us are ever called upon to make such a great sacrifice. However, if we love our brothers enough to die for them, should we not be willing to make smaller sacrifices , going out of our way to help them now? To be self-sacrificing means to give up our own advantage or comfort for the benefit of others. We put their needs and welfare ahead of our own even if it is not convenient. (1 Corinthians 10:24) In what practical ways can we show self-sacrificing love?

    What does the WTS consider a “sacrifice”? Not any of the above are mentioned.

    *** cf chap. 17 pp. 178-179 par. 14 “No One Has Love Greater Than This” ***

    Congregation elders make many sacrifices to “shepherd the flock.” (1 Peter 5:2, 3) In addition to looking after their own families, they may need to take time during evenings or on weekends to care for congregation matters, including preparing meeting parts, making shepherding calls, and handling judicial cases. Many elders make additional sacrifices, working hard at assemblies and conventions and serving as members of Hospital Liaison Committees, Patient Visitation Groups, and Regional Building Committees.

    What, though, about the wives of elders—do not these supportive women also make sacrifices so that their husbands can take care of the flock? Surely it is a sacrifice for a wife when her husband needs to devote to congregation matters time that he might otherwise spend with his family. Think, too, of the wives of traveling overseers and the sacrifices they make to accompany their husbands from congregation to congregation and from circuit to circuit. They forgo having a home of their own and perhaps have to sleep in a different bed each week.

    3. (a) On two occasions, how did Jesus stress the importance

    of humility? (b) What will be discussed in this article?

    3 When Jesus washed the feet of the apostles, it

    was not the first time he highlighted the value of

    humility. On an earlier occasion when some of the

    apostles showed a competitive spirit, Jesus set a

    young child beside him, and He told them: “Whoever

    receives this young child on the basis of my

    name receives me too, and whoever receives me receives

    him also that sent me forth. For he that conducts

    himself as a lesser one among all of you is

    the one that is great.” (Luke 9:46-48) Aware that the

    Pharisees sought prominence, Jesus said later in his

    ministry: “Everyone that exalts himself will be humbled

    and he that humbles himself will

    be exalted.” (Luke 14:11) Clearly, Jesus

    wants his followers to be humble, that

    is, lowly in mind and free of pride and

    arrogance. With a view to imitating him,

    let us carefully examine his example of

    humility. We will also see how this quality

    benefits not only the one displaying

    it but others as well.


    Remember these apostles frequently argued with each other even in front of Jesus. I knew one elder that started his “reign” at his first elder’s meeting as PO with the words, “it’s my way or the highway.”

    Or the new elder that came prepared to discuss an issue and had several scriptures being told by an older elder that they based their discussions on the elder’s manual. That new elder didn’t last long.


    4. How did God’s only-begotten Son exhibit

    humility in his prehuman existence?

    4 God’s only-begotten Son showed

    humility even before he came to earth.

    In his prehuman existence, Jesus spent

    an untold number of years with his

    heavenly Father. The Bible book of Isaiah

    comments on the close relationship

    the Son had with his Father, saying:

    “The Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself

    has given me the tongue of the taught

    ones, that I may know how to answer

    the tired one with a word. He awakens

    morning by morning; he awakens my

    ear to hear like the taught ones. The Sovereign

    Lord Jehovah himself has opened

    my ear, and I, for my part, was not rebellious.

    I did not turn in the opposite direction.”

    (Isa. 50:4, 5) The Son of God

    displayed a humble attitude and paid

    close attention to what Jehovah taught

    him. He was eager and willing to learn

    from the true God. How closely Jesus

    must have observed the example of Jehovah’s

    humility in exercising mercy toward

    sinful mankind!


    How would you prove or disprove that Jesus had a prehuman existence? How does the WTS?

    *** it-2 p. 52 Jesus Christ ***

    Prehuman Existence. The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58)

    But does this prove Jesus was Michael the archangel? Does the WTS prove it?

    *** w10 4/1 p. 19 Is Jesus the Archangel Michael? ***

    Jude verse 9 calls Michael “the archangel.” The prefix “arch” means “principal” or “chief,” and the word “archangel” is never used in the plural form in the Bible.

    *** w91 2/1 p. 17 par. 9 Honor the Son, Jehovah’s Chief Agent ***

    9 Jesus Christ further deserves honor because he is Jehovah’s chief angel, or archangel. On what basis do we reach that conclusion? Well, the prefix “arch,” meaning “chief” or “principal,” implies that there is only one archangel.

    From “implies” to “never used”

    5. In the role of Michael the archangel, how did

    Jesus set an example of humility and modesty

    in dealing with the Devil?

    5 Not every creature in heaven had

    the same attitude as the only-begotten

    Son of God. Instead of desiring to learn

    from Jehovah, the angel who became Satan

    the Devil allowed himself to be influenced

    by traits opposite to humility

    —self-importance and pride—and actually

    rebelled against Jehovah. On the other

    hand, Jesus was neither dissatisfied

    with his own position in heaven nor inclined

    to misuse his authority. As Michael

    the archangel, Jesus did not go

    beyond his authority when he had ‘a

    difference with the Devil about Moses’

    body.’ Instead, God’s Son showed

    humility and modesty. He was pleased

    to have Jehovah, the Supreme Judge of

    the universe, handle matters in His own

    way and time.—Read Jude 9.


    Of course Jesus wouldn’t be dissatisfied, he was the only-begotten Son, the only one to create alongside God (WTS doctrine). So if jws challenge imperfect men on earth who are challenging God’s authority in the congregation, it is the same as challenging God, I think not.

    6. How did Jesus manifest humility in accepting

    the assignment to serve as the Messiah?

    6 The things Jesus learned during his

    prehuman existence undoubtedly included

    the prophecies foretelling details

    of his life on earth as the Messiah.

    Hence, he likely knew in advance

    that unpleasant experiences awaited

    him. Yet, Jesus accepted the assignment

    to live on earth and die as the promised

    Messiah. Why? Highlighting the

    humility of God’s only-begotten Son,

    the apostle Paul wrote: “Although he

    was existing in God’s form, [he] gave no

    consideration to a seizure, namely, that

    he should be equal to God. No, but he

    emptied himself and took a slave’s form

    and came to be in the likeness of men.”

    —Phil. 2:6, 7.


    Did Jesus know in advance? “likely knew” in advance…so did he know or did he “likely” know?

    Has the WTS made themselves “equal to God”?

    *** w11 9/15 pp. 28-29 par. 15 Are You Known by Jehovah? ***

    How we react to adjustments in the worldwide Christian congregation and decisions made by those taking the lead in it has a bearing on our being known by Jehovah.

    *** w11 7/15 p. 28 par. 16 God’s Rest—What Is It? ***

    We can enter into Jehovah’s rest—or join him in his rest—by obediently working in harmony with his advancing purpose as it is revealed to us through his organization.

    *** w07 2/1 p. 24 par. 12 Never Cease Growing in Your Appreciation ***

    And as was true of Noah, our success depends on obedience. We must obediently follow the direction Jehovah provides through his Word and his organization.


    7, 8. In what ways did Jesus show humility

    during his childhood and his earthly ministry?

    7 “When [Jesus] found himself in fashion

    as a man,” wrote Paul, “he humbled

    himself and became obedient as far as

    death, yes, death on a torture stake.”

    (Phil. 2:8) From his childhood on, Jesus

    left us a pattern of humility. Although he was

    raised by imperfect parents—Joseph and Mary

    —Jesus humbly “continued subject to them.”

    (Luke 2:51) What a fine example that is for young

    ones, who will be blessed by God for their willing

    subjection to their parents!


    So Mary and Joseph had told Jesus to stay in Jerusalem and scare the living daylights out of his parents? (verses 48,49) As a parent would you have expected this would Jesus response have been of one in subjection to his parents, his “imperfect” parents who somehow would not have guessed that a 12-year-old boy would have gone to the temple without checking with some adult in the family? Was this a humble response from Jesus? I knew that my parents would have disciplined me for pulling a stunt like that.

    8 As an adult, Jesus showed humility by giving

    priority to the doing of Jehovah’s will, not

    his own. (John 4:34) During his ministry, Jesus

    Christ used God’s personal name and helped sincere

    people to gain an accurate knowledge of Jehovah’s

    attributes and His purpose for mankind.

    Jesus also lived in harmony with what he taught

    about Jehovah. In the model prayer, for example,

    the first point Jesus mentioned was: “Our

    Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”

    (Matt. 6:9) Jesus thus instructed his followers

    to make the sanctification of Jehovah’s name

    a matter of prime concern. He himself lived that

    way. Toward the end of his earthly ministry, Jesus

    could say in prayer to Jehovah: “I have made

    your name known to them [the apostles] and will

    make it known.” (John 17:26) Moreover, throughout

    his ministry Jesus gave Jehovah the credit for

    what he accomplished on earth.—John 5:19.


    Notice that Jesus gave priority to God’s will not the will of the religious leaders of his time. Should jws put the will of the WTS ahead of that of God’s, an organization of imperfect people?

    Where though does Jesus address God as anything but Father when he is not quoting from scripture? Even in the “model” prayer Jesus says :

    (Matthew 6:9) 9 “YOU must pray, then, this way: “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.

    ( Matthew 28: 19) . . .. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,

    (John 5:43-45) 43 I have come in the name of my Father, but YOU do not receive me; if someone else arrived in his own name, YOU would receive that one. 44 How can YOU believe, when YOU are accepting glory from one another and YOU are not seeking the glory that is from the only God? 45 Do not think that I will accuse YOU to the Father; there is one that accuses YOU, Moses, in whom YOU have put YOUR hope.

    (John 10:25) . . .Jesus answered them: “I told YOU, and yet YOU do not believe. The works that I am doing in the name of my Father, these bear witness about me.

    (John 17:24-26) 24 Father, as to what you have given me, I wish that, where I am, they also may be with me, in order to behold my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world. 25 Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you; but I have come to know you, and these have come to know that you sent me forth. 26 And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”

    9. What did Zechariah prophesy regarding the Messiah,

    and how was this fulfilled by Jesus?

    9 Regarding the Messiah, Zechariah prophetically

    wrote: “Be very joyful, O daughter of Zion.

    Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem.

    Look! Your king himself comes to you. He is righteous,

    yes, saved; humble, and riding upon an

    ass, even upon a full-grown animal the son of a

    she-ass.” (Zech. 9:9) This was fulfilled when Jesus

    entered Jerusalem before the Passover in the

    year 33 C.E. The crowd spread their outer garments

    as well as tree branches on the road. Indeed,

    the whole city was set in commotion at his

    entry. Even when he received public acclaim as

    King, Jesus was humble.—Matt. 21:4-11.


    When though did the WTS say Zech. 9:9 was fulfilled?

    ***Proclaimers book (1993) jv chap. 28 p. 632 Testing and Sifting From Within ***

    Based on the premise that events of the first century might find parallels in related events later, they also concluded that if Jesus’ baptism and anointing in the autumn of 29 C.E. paralleled the beginning of an invisible presence in 1874, then his riding into Jerusalem as King in the spring of 33 C.E. would point to the spring of 1878 as the time when he would assume his power as heavenly King.

    PICTURES: How can Jesus’ example of humility benefit us?

    10. What was proved by Jesus’ willing obedience

    as far as death?

    10 Jesus Christ’s course of humility

    and obedience on earth culminated in

    his death on a torture stake. He thus

    proved beyond a doubt that humans can

    remain loyal to Jehovah even when tested

    to the extreme. Jesus also showed

    that Satan was wrong in claiming that

    humans serve Jehovah for selfish reasons.

    (Job 1:9-11; 2:4) Christ’s record of

    perfect integrity also upheld the rightfulness

    and righteousness of Jehovah’s

    universal sovereignty. Jehovah certainly

    rejoiced when observing the unswerving

    loyalty of his humble Son.—Read

    Proverbs 27:11.


    Notice no proof presented that it was a stake rather than a cross. Not even a reference in a footnote. How many jws could even present proof except “the Society says”?

    *** w98 3/15 p. 19 par. 4 Living Up to Christian Dedication in Freedom ***

    In order to avoid misunderstandings, Jehovah’s Witnesses try to be careful about how they express themselves. Instead of saying, “the Society teaches,” many Witnesses prefer to use such expressions as, “the Bible says” or, “I understand the Bible to teach.” In this way they emphasize the personal decision that each Witness has made in accepting Bible teachings and also avoid giving the false impression that Witnesses are somehow bound to the dictates of some religious sect.

    Through God or an organization

    *** km 9/02 p. 8 par. 5 Avoid the Pursuit of “Valueless Things” ***

    God’s Appointed Channel: Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication, “the faithful and discreet slave.” That “slave” has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as “the proper time” for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God’s appointed channel for reliable information, not to a network of Internet users.—Matt. 24:45.

    11. The ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ

    opened up what prospects for believing mankind?

    11 By his death on a torture stake, Jesus

    also paid the ransom price for mankind.

    (Matt. 20:28) This provided an

    opportunity for sinful humans to live

    forever, and it satisfied the demands of

    righteousness. “Through one act of justification

    the result to men of all sorts is

    a declaring of them righteous for life,”

    wrote Paul. (Rom. 5:18) Jesus’ death

    opened up the prospect of immortal life

    in heaven for spirit-anointed Christians

    and everlasting life on earth for the “other

    sheep.”—John 10:16; Rom. 8:16, 17.


    So if Jesus paid the price, why do people have to go through a human organization? Is prayer to God through Christ or the WTS?

    Does John 10:16 enough proof that Jesus was speaking about future Christians or did all Christians hope to go to heaven? Could it be he was talking about future Gentile Christians?


    12. In dealing with imperfect humans, how did

    Jesus show mildness and humility?

    12 Jesus invited all those “toiling and

    loaded down” to come to him. He said:

    “Take my yoke upon you and learn from

    me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in

    heart, and you will find refreshment for

    your souls.” (Matt. 11:28, 29) The qualities

    of humility and mildness moved Jesus

    to be kind and impartial in dealing

    with imperfect humans. He was reasonable

    in what he expected of his disciples.

    Jesus commended and encouraged

    them. He did not make them feel incompetent

    or unworthy. Jesus certainly

    was not harsh or oppressive. On the

    contrary, he assured his followers that

    by drawing close to him and practicing

    his teachings, they would be refreshed,

    for his yoke was kindly and his load was

    light. People of both sexes and of all ages

    felt at ease in his presence.—Matt. 11:30.


    When was the last time an elder talked to you in your current or past congregation that was a matter of fact hi, the “how are you” approach as they keep walking, or to “counsel” you?

    Do you find the talks refreshing or being told you aren’t good enough, you don’t do enough?

    Is the only commendation prior to being told you did something wrong?

    Are they like the elder I mentioned earlier who said “it’s my way or the highway”?

    13. How did Jesus show compassion for the


    13 In his association with the common

    people of Israel, Jesus had compassion

    for them because they were disadvantaged,

    and he gave loving attention to

    their needs. Near Jericho, he encountered

    a blind beggar named Bartimaeus

    and his unnamed blind companion.

    They persistently asked for Jesus’ help,

    but the crowd sternly urged the men

    to be quiet. How easy it would have been

    to ignore the pleas of the blind men! Instead,

    Jesus asked that they be brought

    to him, and moved with pity, he restored

    their sight. Yes, Jesus imitated his

    Father, Jehovah, by displaying humility

    and showing mercy to lowly sinners.

    —Matt. 20:29-34; Mark 10:46-52.


    So who are the “common” people at WTS congregations? Do the elders give “loving” attention to their needs, do they even know what their needs are?

    So who are the “lowly” sinners in the congregation? Aren’t all lowly sinners?

    PICTURE: Jesus’ compassion was exemplary


    14. What benefits have resulted from Jesus’

    course of humility?

    14 Jesus Christ’s life course of humility

    is a cause of joy and is highly beneficial.

    Jehovah rejoiced at seeing his beloved

    Son humbly subject himself to the

    divine will. The apostles and disciples

    were refreshed by Jesus’ mild temper

    and lowliness of heart. His example, his

    teachings, and his warm commendation

    stimulated them to progress spiritually.

    Common people benefited from Jesus’

    humility because they became recipients

    of his help, his teachings, and his

    encouragement. Actually, all redeemable

    mankind will reap long-term benefits

    from Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.


    Did Jesus subject himself to the will of the religious leaders or God’s?

    Who are the “common people” in jw congregations?

    Once the elders were known as servants….then they became overseers…serve or “over” which sounds like humility?

    *** dx30-85 Servants ***

    assistant congregation servant : qm 103, 235-236; yl 127-130; yb66 50-51; w62 630; qm55 103, 235-236; w52 139; w43 166

    Bible study servant : qm 103, 236; yl 130-133; w62 630-631; w61 304; qm55 103, 236

    congregation servant : w69 561-563; qm 93-96, 103, 230-234; yl 124-127; w66 266-273; w64 208, 613-614; w63 429-430, 434-435, 660-662; yb63 314-315; w62 630; w61 302-306; w60 75-76, 179, 344-345; w59 128, 166-167, 172-173, 361-373, 659-660; w58 52-61, 181-189, 442, 750; w57 152-153, 216-217, 369-381; qm55 93-96, 103, 230-234

    15. How did Jesus benefit from being humble?

    15 What about Jesus? Did his humility

    benefit him? Yes, for Jesus told his disciples:

    “Whoever humbles himself will

    be exalted.” (Matt. 23:12) Those words

    proved to be true in his own case. Paul

    explains: “God exalted [Jesus] to a superior

    position and kindly gave him the

    name that is above every other name,

    so that in the name of Jesus every knee

    should bend of those in heaven and

    those on earth and those under the

    ground, and every tongue should openly

    acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord

    to the glory of God the Father.” Because

    of Jesus’ course of humility and faithfulness

    on earth, Jehovah God exalted his

    Son, giving him authority over creatures

    in heaven and on earth.—Phil. 2:9-11.


    So are elders “humble” while baptized men and ministerial servants until they are perceived by the BOE as humble? What happens after their appointment?

    Do they think that the knees in the congregation will be bent to them? I remember in the 70’s one elder said from the platform that the elders were servants of servants. He was adjusted right the after the meeting that elders were not servants of the common jws.



    16. What shows that humility will continue to

    characterize the activities of God’s Son?

    16 Humility will continue to characterize

    the activities of the Son of God.

    Foretelling how Jesus will act against His

    enemies from an exalted heavenly position,

    the psalmist sang: “In your splendor

    go on to success; ride in the cause

    of truth and humility and righteousness.”

    (Ps. 45:4) Along with truth and

    righteousness, Jesus Christ will ride in

    the cause of humility at Armageddon.

    And what will happen at the end of his

    Thousand Year Reign when the Messianic

    King “has brought to nothing all government

    and all authority and power”?

    Will he display humility? Yes, for he will

    ‘hand over the kingdom to his God and

    Father.’—Read 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.


    So when Jesus rides in the cause of humility at Armageddon, what about the people who never received a witness, their children? According to the WTS all 7 billion plus men, women, and children will be executed without any hope of a resurrection.

    17, 18. (a) Why is it important for Jehovah’s

    servants to follow Jesus’ pattern of humility?

    (b) What will be discussed in the next article?

    17 What about us? Will we follow the

    pattern set by our Exemplar and manifest

    humility? How will we fare when

    the King Jesus Christ comes to execute

    judgment at Armageddon? The cause in

    which he rides dictates that he will save

    only those who are humble and righteous.

    Our developing humility, then, is

    essential to our survival. Moreover, just

    as Jesus Christ’s life course of humility

    brought benefits to him and others, our

    displaying humility will be beneficial in

    various ways.


    So will jws follow Jesus or the WTS understanding of him? Will the Bible be the source or WTS publications that use snippets of scriptures and citations? Will jws this Sunday have looked up the scriptures in this article?

    Humility to God and Jesus or a human organization will lead to survival?

    18 What can help us to follow Jesus’

    pattern of humility? How may we strive

    to be humble despite the challenges we

    may encounter? These questions will be

    considered in the next article.


    Yes, there are many challenges to being like Jesus in a jw congregation? The WTS rarely talks about being like Jesus but being like God and using OT references.


    Next week, CULTIVATE THE SPIRIT OF A LESSER ONE. Who show themselves to be truly lesser ones at jw congregations?

    Love, Blondie

  • trujw

    Blondie I am getting tired, tired, tired, tired. I know what we do here helps thousands myself included but I am starting to feel personally that we are preaching to the choir. Maybe it is my born in jw coming out but I really want to preach an outreach ministry to jws personally not in a chat room. I am at a lost on how to get my family to somehow see the light and am almost to the point of starting to place litature at Kingdum halls. The lies from the fds are almost too much to handle and I am waking up at night thinking jw doctrine and debating myself to the point of mental exhaustion. any pointers to help

  • blondie

    Hi, trujw.

    I was 3rdgen jw when I left, over 20 people jws in my family. I stayed for 40 years because it took quite a bit of abuse to finally see the healthy step was to leave. There was nothing anyone could say to me, it took what I saw and experienced personally over ten years before the accumulation was too painful to stay. The best thing is not to try and get them out, just let them see it themselves. It's like having an abusive spouse or getting someone to quit overdrinking or using dangerous drugs. All you can do it find healthy ways to help yourself.

    Have you read any of Steve Hassan's books? He has some good pratical ways to help yourself and maybe, maybe help someone leave a cult or high control group.

    Being here is a good step. There are variety of people here with experiences across the board.

  • watson

    Thank you again Blondie!!!

    What the H**L does this mean????

    Along with truth and righteousness, Jesus Christ will ride in
    the cause of humility at Armageddon
  • watson
    11 By his death on a torture stake, Jesus
    also paid the ransom price for mankind.
    (Matt. 20:28) This provided an
    opportunity for sinful humans to live
    forever, and it satisfied the demands of
    righteousness. “Through one act of justification
    the result to men of all sorts is
    a declaring of them righteous for life,”
    wrote Paul. (Rom. 5:18) Jesus’ death
    opened up the prospect of immortal life
    in heaven for spirit-anointed Christians
    and everlasting life on earth for the “other
    sheep.”—John 10:16; Rom. 8:16, 17.

    This line of reasoning helped me "out".


  • blondie

    Hi Watson.

    I interpret as meaning that Jesus will destroy all who have not humbled themselves to the ones the WTS identify as Jesus' brothers on earth, the "anointed" jws. The WTS is quoting from a scripture in Psalm 45.

    *** w11 8/15 p. 16 par. 20 They Found the Messiah! ***

    Christ will soon destroy his foes as he ‘rides in the cause of truth, humility, and righteousness.’ (Ps. 2:8, 9; 45:1-6)

    *** w08 4/1 p. 8 Armageddon—God’s War to End All Wars ***

    Christ rides, the psalmist explains, “in the cause of truth and humility and righteousness.” He wages war because he loves righteousness and hates wickedness.—Psalm 45:4, 7.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    " Finally a study article that seems to highlight Jesus. "

    So it would seem. But reading through it, the article is really about humility and unquestioning obedience, in my estimation.

    18 What can help us to follow Jesus’

    pattern of humility? How may we strive

    to be humble despite the challenges we

    may encounter? These questions will be

    considered in the next article.

    I don't think that the point of this article or the next is to actually praise Jesus in any meaningful way. Jesus isn't their king, he's a tool for promoting WT authority. I suspect that the next article will get right to the point that they are talking about Jesus humility and obedience to Jehovah as setting the example that JWs should be humble and unquestioningly obedient to "Jehovah's spirit-directed organization."

    WT doesn't seem to be capable of writing anything unless it ultimately directs attention to the GB and slavery to their organization.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    tru: "I am at a lost on how to get my family to somehow see the light and am almost to the point of starting to place litature at Kingdum halls."

    Don't wear yourself out or beat yourself up. I appreciate Blondie's Comments as an opportunity to see what is getting force fed to my family and old friends. The interesting observations by Blondie and others have helped me to be prepared with some thoughtful remarks for changing what may be infecting their minds.

  • prologos

    BLondie: thank you. again on wt question par.11: John 10:16 -- it is significant that you put your coment in the form of a question. Watson too in a way.

    Jesus said in --John 10:16-- that the OTHER SHEEP are "-- not of this FOLD--" what was the --"FOLD"-- in that context ?: The nation of Israel. like you indicated as a question:

    The OTHER SHEEP are the non-Jewish Christians starting with Cornelius. All Christians always were one flock never two. and

    Here is the interesting story of the unraveling of the WT BtS two-tier doctrine:

    Wt taught for a while that BY 1934-35 their 144 000 strong christian congregation was complete. Therefore the new converts had to be non-christians! so:

    they ignored Jesus John 10:16 comment about the "ONE FLOCK" and came up with the idea od "THE OTHER SHEEP, Earthly class, Jonadabs, in the "GREAT CROWD" of 1934-5. but

    --WHen they had to CANCEL the date 1934 as the complete end of the SEALING of their congregation of 144 000, and move it to Armageddon (as Rev 7says),

    it left the BEGINNING of their "earthly class, Other Sheep, great crowd" concept still in 1934-1935!!. what is wrong here?

    the amazing answer is in Re.7 1-8 where the 144 000 are shown to be sealed --"OUT of-- OUT of--Out of-- " the 12 tribes of the ISRAEL (of God).

    That sealing will stop at Armageddon not 1934

    But when did it start? 1919? If These "1000 year tenure" kings include the slaughtered martyrs described in Rev. 20:4 ,then

    this sealing started BEFORE Stephen the first recorded martyr. It started at Pentecost 33CE! but

    according to WT BtS, new "annointed" ones come OUT OF the "Other sheep class". so:

    THERE WAS a so called "earthly class" in existence all along! but it was not the wt defined "other sheep" but all of the anointed Christian congregation that was awaiting a new "heavens and a new earth".

    Of all the anointed, and that is all of the believers*, only 144 000 will rule as kings. All believers should take the bread and wine. to sum up:

    1) Other Sheep (gentile Christians) too, have heavenly POTENTIAL and started in 036 with Cornelius.

    2) 144 000 are incognito among all Christians and started not later than STEPHEN.

    3) all Cristians shall partake of the Bread and Wine and thereby have everlasting life to be resurrected in the last day John 6.

    Par.11 of tomorrows' Wt ignored these bible based reasonings and served only to reinforce erroneous wt doctrine by repetion propaganda.

    * non-believers we are listening to your arguments and it all will work out well. thank you.

  • Bobcat


    90% of an elder's time is wasted in bureacratic corprate traditions and red tape; JWs are overloaded walking empty neighborhoods unbalanced in TOO MUCH field service and not nearly enough actual Bible study

    Good point TE. Experienced all this myself.


    Wt ignored these bible based reasonings and served only to reinforce erroneous wt doctrine by repetion propaganda.

    I've noticed the same. Much of WT 'proof' is to simply repeat an idea over and over. Inculcating the idea by repeating it. Communist style brainwashing at its best. (On the link, see especially the second paragraph under "Contents.")

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