Can you equate Jehovah as a murderer???

by cognac 34 Replies latest jw friends

  • PSacramento

    It is important to understand the context of these acts attributed to God or at least seemingly approved by God.

    First off and in reagrds to the stipulations for Israel ( the many laws of thr Torah):

    Israel was being prepared and made into a theocratic nation, a nation to be pure and blameless under God BUT a nation that had been enslaved for generations and had very little regard for what was "sacred" and had to be made to "stand apart" from the other nations.

    The Laws of the OT were designed for that and some of them, as EZkiel pointed out, were "bad laws" for a reason.

    With the severe infulence of the bordering nations the Laws became as severe and it is also important to note they were causal laws ( If a person does...).

    IN regards to the various acts that WE deem immoral or worng based on OUR understanding, I freely admit that many are quite bothersome ro say the very least.

    But context does help us at times and an example is the story of Elisha:

    Kill Brats From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB

    ON the surface it seems that Elish commanded wild bears to kill children that called him "baldy", BUT is that what happened?

    Elisha had just purified the waters of Jericho and was on his way to Bethel when these "kids" came and started to harrass Him ( the same guy that just purfifed their water), so Elisha cursed them and bears attacked and, here is a crucial element, killed at least 42 of them:

    23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and (AB) mocked him and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!” 24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he (AC) cursed them in the name of the Lord . Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number.

    So, we know that AT LEAST 42 "hooligans" were harrassing a man that had just purified the waters.

    Now, I don't know about you guys but I think that AT LEAST 42 trouble makers seems like a gang of thugs, yes?

  • Heaven

    Yes, I can. But then, to me, he is not what he is to others. I think Exodus 15:3 says a lot. I'm not interested in worshipping a God of War:

    New International Version (©1984)
    The LORD is a warrior; the LORD is his name.

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    The LORD is a warrior; Yahweh is his name!

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    The LORD is a man of war; the LORD is his name.

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    "The LORD is a warrior; The LORD is His name.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
    The LORD is a warrior; Yahweh is His name.

    International Standard Version (©2012)
    The LORD is a man of war, the LORD is his name!

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    The LORD is a warrior! The LORD is his name.

    King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
    The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

    American King James Version
    The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

    American Standard Version
    Jehovah is a man of war: Jehovah is his name.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    The Lord is as a man of war, Almighty is his name.

    Darby Bible Translation
    Jehovah is a man of war; Jehovah, his name.

    English Revised Version
    The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

    World English Bible
    Yahweh is a man of war. Yahweh is his name.

    Young's Literal Translation
    Jehovah is a man of battle; Jehovah is His name.

  • wasblind

    Had this long talk with hubby about the fact that if you allow your child to die because of the blood issue you are no different then a murderer. He said then Jehovah is a murderer because he allowed his son to die.____Cognac

    Accordin' to the bible Jesus had to die to attone for our sins, He was ressurected and given a reward for doin' so

    Jesus was the sacrificial lamb. No one else is needed. When a Jehovah's Witness choose to die from the lack of blood,

    it is to set them apart from other religions . That's right it's all for "SHOW" . Totally unecessary

    They can't save a soul in thier dyin'. Not even gauranteed to save themselves in the after life

    Why: If they died before they turn in thier field service report or their activity was low , they may not get into paradise

    Jehovah' Witness don't believe that havin' faith alone is enough. It has to be earned in field service

  • Pams girl
    Pams girl

    Kill witches??


  • wasblind

    Had this long talk with hubby about the fact that if you allow your child to die because of the blood issue you are no different then a murderer._____Cognac

    " Jehovah's Witnesses hold to the Bible as the standard for all their beliefs " _______Reasoning book page 199

    " ( Therefore the eating of blood is equated with idolatry and fornication, things we should not want to engage in"

    " Similarly, any food to which whole blood or any blood fraction has been added should not be eaten."____Reasoning book page 71


    " As for the various fractions dervived from those ( blood ) components and products that contain such fractions, the Bible does not comment on these therefore, each Witness makes his own personal decision on such matters."________Aug Awake 2006 page 12

    Bottom line : The reason for the Death of a Witness became unecessary when the WTS changed their stance on fractions

    The meanin' behind the death of Jesus never changed. Therefore it never became unecessary


  • PSacramento
    Kill witches??

    The "witches" the OYT speaks of were advocates of sex to be with the gods ( for money of course), sacrificing of children and things along those lines.

    Not wiccans or things like that.

  • wasblind


    You have to remember everything you cut and paste was before the birth, death and the resurrection of the Christ

    When Jehovah sent his Son , he said to listen to his Son

    The WTS takes the words of the Son and twist them

    They even overide the words of the Son in Acts 1:8, and refer to the old testament

    as to why they are called Jehovah's Witnesses

    Again, Isaiah 43:10-12 was stated before the birth of the Christ

    The WTS takes the authority from Jesus by introducin What they do as a " New thought "


    " Christians are supposed to be witnesses for Jesus not for Jehovah


    But here is something that may be a new thought to you, Of whom was Jesus " The faithful Witness ?"_____Reasoning book page 208

    Paul warns of that in Galatians chapter 1



  • cantleave

    You could say that it’s his job to start and end every life. Only man can murder.

    So hitler didn't murder anyone in concentration camps as he only developed the policies, and didn't physically carry them out? Your god, according your holy book, ordered the genocides and infanticide, even if he didn't carry them out!

  • EntirelyPossible

    I see the excuses for mass killings are alive and well.....

  • PSacramento

    It is very difficult for a believer ( In a God of Love) to reconcile the acts of death and destruction attributed to God in the OT and NT.

    What I find at times even more difficut though is the view of some that what God did was horrific AND YET they ask why God doesn't do that anymore !

    That I don't get at all.

    If God acted in the past and killed off people that were evil and causing trouble and we now look back and say that was horrific, that is understandable but why then ask or suggest God to be uncaring or powerless to prevent evil right now when God DOESN'T do just that, stop and kill of evil doers in the present?

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