Is the Jehovah's Witness religion Christian? (page 4)

designs

Gosh darn those Jewish christians they really screwed up things didn't they.

Vanderhoven7

I would not say that individual Jehovah's Witnesses cannot be Christians.

I will say that Watchtower religion represents counterfeit Christianity.

Christ Alone

All churches are in essence the same as JW.

No. And here is a major fallacy that the WT uses. Lump in all churches. There are essentially 3 groups to JWs. There is the WT society. All other Christian religions that they call "Christendom", and all other "false" religion.

But if we are only going to work within those 3 categories, then fine. Are all other churches in essence the same as JWs? No. As was already brought out Christians are to worship Jesus Christ. JWs do not. They do not proskyneo Jesus, as countless others did in early Christianity. They view him as an angelic model to follow. Here's a list to compare JWs to "All Churches"

1. Refuse to proskyneo Jesus

2. Refuse to acknowledge Jesus' deity

3. Are witnesses of Jehovah and NOT Jesus

4. Holy Spirit is an impersonal force and not a real person as Christianity (and the Bible) affirms

5. Reject the gift of communion with Jesus Christ and forbid all those but a few thousand from partaking

6. Salvation is based on baptism and works. It is not a free gift that is given to all that accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

7. Restrict Biblical meaning to all but a select few. They made the comment: "Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation (The anointed Watchtower) as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible."

As was brought out, believing in Jesus does not make you a Christian. The Devil believes that Jesus exists as well, but he is not a Christian. He does not proskyneo Jesus.

I draw a logic conclusion between the confusion in the second and the third centry among christians that lead to the Nicean Creed and what the apostles and even Jesus forewarned about.

This is one of the biggest loads of garbage that's come out of the WT. The creeds and councils were a response to heresies, not a developement of new doctrine. The WT tries to imply that the Trinity doctrine was unknown to the early church and that Constantine helped "create" the doctrine during this counsil. All it takes is to research the early church and read the writings of the earliest of the church fathers to see what Christians believed at the time. It is commonly spouted off (without knowledge) that the doctrine wasn't taught until much later.

Ignatius, on 14 occasions calls Jesus God, and on 8 of these actually refers to him as ho theos (the God). When did Ignatius of Antioch live? He lived from C30 to C107. So the claim that Jesus was not considered "God" until the council of Nicea is 100% false.

jgnat

Consider, myelaine, that there were no Christians when that psalm was written.

Christ Alone

Trinity teachers where a result of what apostle Paul said: I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.-Acts 20:29

Another loaded WT statement that is absolutely 100% false. I've seen you try to defend the WT's anti Trinity stand, Kosonen, and it just can't stand up. The Bible calls Jesus "God" all over the place. In fact it calls Jesus "THE God" many times. Try looking up some commentaries, biblical dictionaries, and lexicons instead of the HORRIBLE New World Translation. Trying to pull scriptures out of context and say that they don't mean what they say does not alter the fact that the early church knew very well that Jesus was of the same substance of God. Just SAYING that this doctrine was a result of what Paul said about false teachers does not make it so.

In fact, the councils were a response to these false teachers. Interestingly some of these false teachers were teaching almost exactly what the WT is teaching. I encourage you to research Arianism. Those doctrines are very close to what the WT has historically taught.

NewChapter

So I get to be Muslim if I want, I guess.

Well, possibly. I'm not sure exactly how that works. Christians have willy nilly rules and a lot of conflict within as to the definition of Christian. They often point to others claiming to be Christian, and say they are not really Christian, and only find a finger pointing back at them. Chrisitianity is broken into thousands of sects, and that doesn't include the solo Christian that defines as they go and as they wish

If Islam is this way (actually, I only know of one real division, and it doesn't seem to be completely doctrinal) then I suppose you could be Muslim with a simple announcement and the use of the name Allah.

But when it comes to Christianity----there are no real rules or definitions. Everyone thinks they are on the right course and will point to others and say they are not. They have a scripture to back that up---not everyone saying Lord, Lord---etc. And they use it to great effect.

If I were to tell a Catholic they weren't a real Christian---that would be problematic. If I were to tell a JW they weren't a real Christian, that is allowed. It's all in POV with Christianity.

Christ Alone

NC, I don't like telling anyone that says they are Christian that they are not a Christian. But doctrinally I cannot see how one can be a Christian when they refuse communion, refuse to be known as a witness of Jesus, refuse to believe in His Lordship, and refuse to worship Him.

That being said, I could be wrong. They do believe that Jesus is the son of God. However, as has been pointed out, so does the Devil. If He has offered the free gift of salvation by grace, and they refuse to go to Him to take it, then can they be said to be saved?

Jesus said that belief in God wasn't what led to eternal life anyway. People have to TAKE the gift. John 5:39,40 speaks to those that refuse to go directly to Jesus to take that free gift. So if you are refusing to do what Jesus asks you to do for salvation, can you be said to be a Christian?

PSacramento

I think there is some confusion about what defines someone as a Christian and what MAKES them a Christian.

Any person that follows the teachings of Christ is, by definition a follower of Christ, but does that make them a Christian?

The term Christian means "annointed" so, going by the definition of the word, only those that believe themselves to be annointed by the HS and CHrist are Christians.

But does that MAKE them Christians or is being a Christian also being about HOW someone follows the teachings of Christ?

Dammned if I know, LOL !

greendawn

" Gosh darn those Jewish christians they really screwed up things didn't they."

I think at first it was their natural way of perceiving things, Jesus came as their Jewish Messiah and they were expecting him to return soon to liberate Israel (will you restore now the Kingdom of Israel?) and He never told them that they had to abandon the Mosaic Law perhaps they were not ready for it (I have many things to tell you but you are not able to bear them) so they carried on with the Jewish tradition keeping the Law and worshipping at the Temple in Jerusalem.

It was Paul a man of great discernment and understanding that had the new perspective where Christian love replaced the rigidity and tediousness of the law and understood the Messiah and saviour of the Jews to be the Messiah and saviour of the entire world. However the Christian Jews never abandoned their approach and many of them saw Paul as an apostate and an impostor apostle.

Kosonen

Christ Alone,

How come that reading through the bible more than 10 I still find more scriprures everywhere in the bible against trinity than for it? Therefore daily bible reading makes me even more sure that trinity is a false idea.

For example today I encountered following verses: Isaiah 63:16;64:8:(American standard version)

16 For thou art our Father, though Abraham knoweth us not, and Israel doth not acknowledge us: thou, O Jehovah, art our Father; our Redeemer from everlasting is thy name.

8 But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

So, Jehovah is the Father. Jesus is the son of God, the only begotten. Jesus is not Jehovah and Jesus is not the Father.

If Jesus is called some very few times God or Father in the bible, it does not mean what trinitarians think. Because Jehovah God called humans Gods, without meaning that they are Jehovah too. When Jesus is called Father it does not mean that he is Jehovah, because Adam is also father. Because Jesus replaced not Jehovah as Father but Jesus replaced Adam as father for christians. But still Jehovah is the Greatest Father.

Besides the obove quoted scriptures, logically how could Jesus be at the same time both Son of God and the the Father God and Jehovah? To say this would really be very perverse and twisted. Just as apostle Paul warned.

Is the Jehovah's Witness religion Christian?

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