Believers, do you believe in evolution?

by everchangingworld 159 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  brizzzy

  Anyway, odd or not, it's an unreasonable question to pose here, since the likelihood of any poster being able to give an accurate answer is infinitesimal. It's a little like asking me how a television signal actually manages to travel simultaneously all over Britain and land inside my TV set just at the moment I want to watch it, and be there at the same time in a TV set of a viewer in, say, northern Scotland. I know this happens. (I also know it would be easier to prove than any answer to the question about the soul, but still...) But ask me to explain the whys and wherefores of a TV signal and why the air isn't jam packed with flying pictures all over the place, and I'm stumped. My guess is most of you are the same, though it's possible there's a TV engineer or scientist out there on this board who could do it. But answer about the soul and when it arrived inside a human? I haven't a clue. Truly, realistically, have you?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvmvxAcT_Yc

  *ducks and runs*
• 

  NewChapter

  didn't work.
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  And here is where the problem starts. If there is a dimension separate from our own, the it is untestable using physical methods. The unseen spiritual realm cannot be tested while in the seen physical realm.

  No, the problem is when people start making unprovable assertions as fact.

  Anyway, if God is intervening in this universe, he is making changes, those can be measured. He must be using energy or physical means to do so, we could look for that. His entry and exit into spacetime is violating conservation of energy and causality. That could be observed.

  So, how is he doing all of this?
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  It's a little like asking me how a television signal actually manages to travel simultaneously all over Britain and land inside my TV set just at the moment I want to watch it, and be there at the same time in a TV set of a viewer in, say, northern Scotland. I know this happens.

  I would guarantee that there are least three posters on this forum that could give a relatively detailed and mostly correct (for the details we can't remember or mis-remember there are detailed references!) answer on that off the top of their head with no references. So, no, it's not like that at all.
• 

  Chariklo

  LOL!!!!!!
  
  So very predictable, all of it. And
  
  
  

  Char, why is it that everytime I try to get into a discussion with a non-atheist, you jump on here and act like I had no right?

  Every time? Oh, my dear New Chapter, stop being paranoid, and learn to count!

  I make onecomment, in one thread, which surely is my right. and you seem to lose all sense of proportion!

  Please be more explicit. I "act like"???? How, exactly? In all the many posts you have made since you and I were last on a thread together? In what way has this one post merited this?...a response to the OP, not to you, merely remarking on something you said and not even naming you because you took exception to that last time, a little while ago now.

  Before Angharad comes on here and says to take this to PM's, I suggest that if you have something you wish to address to me, personally, you PM me. Otherwise, please don't assume that if I do you the courtesy of commenting on a remark of yours...this is a discussion forum, remember...that I am "acting like you had not right". I have nothing against you. I don't assume you have something against me. Why can't you just be normal?

  You have every right to post as you please, within the forum's guidelines. And so do I.
• 

  cofty

  But ask me to explain the whys and wherefores of a TV signal and why the air isn't jam packed with flying pictures all over the place, and I'm stumped. My guess is most of you are the same, though it's possible there's a TV engineer or scientist out there on this board who could do it. But answer about the soul and when it arrived inside a human? I haven't a clue. Truly, realistically, have you?

  I was a telecomms engineer, I could explain that for you.

  There is no comparison between a question that we personally don't know the answer to and a groundless assertion for which there is no possible answer.
• 

  Chariklo

  Thanks, Cofty and EP, for confirming my assumption that there would be those on here who do know the answer to that question!
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  EntirelyPossible

  I was a telecomms engineer, I could explain that for you.

  You were one of the people I would have bet would know.

  Thanks, Cofty and EP, for confirming my assumption that there would be those on here who do know the answer to that question!

  Sorry, Char. Your suggestion was that there would be virtually zero chance anyone on the forum could answer. We can ALL go back and read your original assertion and see that it was shown to be wrong. Claiming it was something else after the fact isn't very honest.
• 

  NewChapter

  Before Angharad comes on here and says to take this to PM's, I suggest that if you have something you wish to address to me, personally, you PM me. Otherwise, please don't assume that if I do you the courtesy of commenting on a remark of yours...this is a discussion forum, remember...that I am "acting like you had not right". I have nothing against you. I don't assume you have something against me. Why can't you just be normal?

  Interesting question. And perhaps if you had commented on my question, or furthered the discussion, you would have a point. But you just jumped on and accused me of bad motives for posing the question. And then, as usual, you followed with a personal insult.

  Other than that, I thought is was a great and valid question that could have been led to some interesting discussion. But apparently it was a stumper and kind of crashed and burned. But there is no need to get irritated over the question itself. It's something to think about, and some people may decide they'd like to look into it for a better answer, so they are prepared when the question is posed again, or for their own benefit. If that happens, I'd say it was a pretty good question, if it makes people think. Some people like that.

  I would have liked clear and even more discussion on it. I was writing a story about H. habilis, and thinking of how this spiritual thing would have started. Of course, the story is pure fiction, but it made me think. If some form of immortality was true, then how did it come about? At what would humans have begun to retain a certain form of consciousness after death? What would that feel like. Would the first humans be few and would they crave more company. Would it be haphazard---not all humans having it---so the spiritual population would grow slowly? I find it an interesting thought exercise, and thought maybe others would too.

  So you see, when you assign motives to me, you are often incorrect. Yes, I am an atheist, but I still find other people's take on this interesting. You shot it down with little regard to my feelings, or interest in having a fascinating discussion. But that's okay, cuz I'm an angry atheist. Right?

  And now to answer your question, since you asked. I wouldn't want to be normal for anything in the world!
• 

  secondary priorities

  i'm not a believer, but yes i "believe" in evolution. just like i "believe" in gravity.

  to be frank, whether or not there was a designer that set in motion the spark of life, the evolutionary process ITSELF is generally considered a FACT.

  this is a good topic, because i honestly knew next to nothing about evolution besides the slanted view presented in watchtower publications. i was never taught the theory in school. the simple truth is the earth is billions of years old, humans share a common biological heritage with many other mammals, and there is no way they were only created within the last 10, 000 years. common objections like "i'll believe in evolution when a chimp gives birth to a human baby" no longer hold water in today's age. the fossil record is there, as well as an abundance of evidence in other branches of science. people often simply cannot comprehend the immense timeline of evolution. when our sun becomes a red giant in approximately 5 billion years or so, humans will no longer exist. we will have evolved into something as different from us today, as we are today from simple bacteria.

  "those who think the world began less than ten thousand years ago are worse than ignorant, they are deluded to the point of perversity." - richard dawkins

  i would recommend richard dawkin's "the greatest show on earth" as a good starting point, especially for someone like me who has really had no experience studying it. the book is quite simple to understand, and a good beginning.