Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?

by Christ Alone 317 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  james_woods

  I'm speaking from a biblical perspective. Does the Bible show that God has foreknowledge?

  It suggests that god may have foreknowledge of SOME things (such as the outcome of wars, disposal of national orders, etc.) It could be suggested that those things that he says he foreknows are things that he directly influences or plans to influence.

  I cannot think of anything that could be used to suggest that god can fore-know and predict EVERYTHING that will ever happen in the universe in advance - as if the universe were an atonomaton running like predestined clockwork.

  By extension, I cannot see how the bible argues that the universe works that way - i.e. in a non-quantum non-fluctuation manner without uncertainty.
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  Christ Alone

  Why would I do that?

  Because you're saying I'm wrong in stating that God is not bound by physical laws. And the fact that there is not a single scripture that can be taken that way.
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  EntirelyPossible

  Because you're saying I'm wrong in stating that God is not bound by physical laws. And the fact that there is not a single scripture that can be taken that way.

  I am saying the Bible never says that God is NOT bound by physical laws. Show me one that says that. You made the claims, burden of proof is on you to prove it.
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  Christ Alone

  I cannot think of anything that could be used to suggest that god can fore-know and predict EVERYTHING that will ever happen in the universe in advance - as if the universe were an atonomaton running like predestined clockwork.

  Isaiah 46:9-10: Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

  He sees every move we make, He knows the innermost thoughts of our hearts and He even knows what we are going to say before we say it (1 Sam. 16:7; 1 Chron. 28:9; Psa. 139:1-6; Jer. 17:10;.

  Heb 4:13 says: " Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account." NOTHING. Space and time are creations of God.

  Biblically, God must be absolutely sovereign, or not at all. The entire chapter of Psalm 139 speaks of God's ultimate knowledge of all things.
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  PSacramento

  Knowing the outcome of something only effects freewill if an action is taken to make it so.

  The doctrine of Omniscience doesn't effect freewill, the only doctrine that does is "predestination".
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  Christ Alone

  I am saying the Bible never says that God is NOT bound by physical laws.

  Do you recognize that the Bible speaks of the physical and speaks of the spiritual? God is not physical. God is a spirit. If God was bound by physical laws, then miracles would not have been possible. Jesus could not have walked on water.

  John chapter 1 verses 1 and 3 say, “In the beginning was The Word” and “Through Him (The Word) all things were made; without Him (The Word) nothing was made that has been made.” The Word made everything. Everything there is in this universe and beyond was made by The Word. In other words, the spiritual created the physical. The spiritual literally gave birth to the physical.

  If God existed before any physical creation or physical laws, then He would not be bound by them. If God existed before time was created, He would not be bound by time. Unless He chose to be bound by these things, of which there is no evidence.
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  EntirelyPossible

  Isaiah 46:9-10: Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

  That doesn't say God knows everything.

  Biblically, God must be absolutely sovereign, or not at all. The entire chapter of Psalm 139 speaks of God's ultimate knowledge of all things.

  Then you can never choose against what God has forseen. It is your destiny. No freewill in that case.
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  Christ Alone

  Then you can never choose against what God has forseen. It is your destiny. No freewill in that case.

  You can choose whatever you want. Again, knowledge does not effect action.
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  Christ Alone

  And I'm also NOT saying that God does not act to control matters. God DOES interfere and put desires and thoughts into the minds and hearts of others at certain times. This does interfere with free will.

  But this is predestination and not foreknowledge, as PSac brought out. Foreknowledge does not control anything.
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  EntirelyPossible

  Do you recognize that the Bible speaks of the physical and speaks of the spiritual? God is not physical. God is a spirit. If God was bound by physical laws, then miracles would not have been possible. Jesus could not have walked on water.

  So does the Bible every say that God is not bound by physical laws? If so, where?

  Everything there is in this universe and beyond was made by The Word.

  If there was a beginning, that means there was time. God was in the flow of time. Otherwise, there would NOT be a beginning.

  If God existed before any physical creation or physical laws, then He would not be bound by them.

  Clearly a big if, since the Bible says there WAS a beginning before the creation of the universe. Time is a physical part of the universe.