An atheists grieve

by Borges 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • Borges
    Borges

    Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. I appreciate it very much. There is a lot to think about. On almost every comment you gave, you could start an interesting conversation.

    It is impossible to go into every subject your mentioned, but I'll try at least a few.

    yalbmert99 - very interesting exposition. I've thought about it before. The ultimate cause which is beyond our comprehension and is ineffable. But even when it exists, it is an absract concept that doesn't really affect me as a small human with my, in relation to the whole universe, insignificant questions about my own beeing. This thought is rather satisfying in a rational way that leaves the last unanswered questions to an relaxed curiosity.

    designs - I don't want to leave footprints. I'd like to keep going.

    mr.freeze/cofty/sizemik - I've read a lot about this thought: we have been dead an eternity before our birth, so why bother to go back to this state. But there is a great difference between the eternity which precedes our existence and the eternity that will follow after our death. As persons capable of thinking we can fill the time before we came to existence. We can learn so much about our past, the past of our family, of our city, of our country, of the world, of the universe. Even we weren't existent at a certain moment in history, we can consider the remains and imagine to be a part of. But there are no remains of the future. The future is a story yet untold. Up to a certain point we can recover the past, but never the future. The eternity before our birth is an infinite possibility to gain knowledge and experience, the eternity after our death is just a loss.

    snare & racket - I don't miss wether the Jehovah of the wittnesses, nor the jealous and disgusting god of the bible. It is, like you mentioned, this kind of father-figure, the one who cares, the one who guarantees a good outcome, even when everything is desperate. Very often I think it would have been better to been raised in a family of non- believers or such as the family of my girl-friend. They are protestants, but never imposed their beliefe in their children. They had to make up their minds on their own and never were infected by the unrelaistic concept of an everlasting life.

    And you are right: Science is awesome. Life is awesome.

    new chapter - I've read "The lord is no shephard" by Hitchens. The Book about mortality is unknown to me. But I will try to get it.

    Talking of a good read: The mentioned Julian Barnes wrote an exellent book about death called: "Nothing to be frightend of". In my oppinion the best book ever written about the subject.But maybe Hitchens will top it. I'm going to tell you, when I've read it.

    outlaw - enjoying your posts - each and every time!!

    botchtowersociety - I never really understood the term "love" like the jw use it. They said we should love field service - I hated it. They said: we should love the people in our territory - I didn't like them. they said we should love Jehovah - I didn't really feel it.

    The first time I got a glimpse what it means to love was when I read 1984 by George Orwell. At the end of the book, when the main character was torched and mutilated for thought-crimes, but at the end released to go on with his life, he felt some kind of love for his oppressors. It is the love you feel for somebody who is hitting you all day long and then stops just for a few minutes.

    Phizzy - Clapton is still alive or did I miss something. (O.K. he is god, so death doesn't bother him at all :-) ) There is a good song of Alan Parsons Project in which they pray: Bring back Elvis...bring back Lennon etc. I would like to have some drinks with Bon Scott. Highway to Hell was my first touch with Rock`n Roll.

    goldensky - Love your comment. Thank you for your kind words. My native language is german, the second english, the third spanish, because I was living in South America and Spain for a couple of years. My problem is that I like to express myself in english a s good as in german when it comes to such significant matters like we are discussing in this thread (or in many others which are very interesting). Quickly I'm strechted to my limits and feel kind of handicapped. Very often I prefer to stay quiet instead of posting something that might be missunderstood.

    What you discribe is what I hope to gain someday: Feel the greatfullness of life without expecting answers to be the foundation of it.

    John Mann - Very interesting thoughts! In fact, I'm not afraid of death, I'm frightend of dying. Of the moment you realize, when you close your eyes it will be forever. Of the dizzeness when your circulation collapses, of the numbness of your extremeties, the loose of sight and hearing. The sensation of vanishing. And no cushion to rest your head on. Thats what I'm afraid of.

    Once again - thank you

    Borges

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann

    Why are you so sure you will not have a sudden death? Ok, ok bad joke!

  • goldensky
    goldensky

    Borges, I sent you a personal message.

  • tornapart
    tornapart

    Sometimes I think what we've been fed as JWs (or many other religions for that matter.. ie heaven or hell) has distorted our view of God. I am beginning now to see the difference between the Jesus of the NT and the God of the OT. Jesus said that any who have seen him have seen the Father also. Yet there is much in the OT that shows God in a opposite way. A God to be feared and not loved. I think man's way of visualising who and what God is have distorted him. Also what the bible has to say about creation is obviously not to be taken literally and is actually very limited in what it does say. Man has filled in all the gaps and has come up with something that science has shown isn't possible. It doesn't mean that there is no God or there is no creation.

    However what I would say to you as an atheist (and it goes for all of us)... enjoy your life now! Enjoy every moment. Thinking about dying can spoil your enjoyment of the life you have! One guy whose blog I read sometimes said a few days ago:-

    "So as we approach a day of giving thanks as well as the start of a new calendar year(which is meaningless by the way, every day is worth making that special), i cannot help but step back and realize that I need to make a conscious effort to invite those feeling of simplicity back into my life.Carrying out, with pride and excellence your adult responsibilities while living life with a childlike passion and simplicity is, in my opinion, the goal of any well led and full life.I sit here with a choice to make this day routine or make it extraordinary...but words are not enough. At the end of the day, I must be able to prove to myself that it was a well-lived day."

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    Human beings have had a need for fiction and fantasy for most of our history. There is nothing wrong with indulging in it from time to time, as long as you choose a harmless method.

    I do this by science fiction. Every few yrs I go to Xmas Eve Mass and experience it the same way I do by watching an old sci fi movie--letting my mind get lost in the fantasy--"it would be so awesome if it was true". I easily return to reality once I'm done, but I do enjoy the experience.

  • freydo
    freydo

    Atheists shouldn't greive. You're just like chickens and dogs, etc. This feeling will quickly pass.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Atheists shouldn't greive. You're just like chickens and dogs, etc. - Freydo

    Please tell us why you think an atheist's life is worth less than yours.

  • freydo
    freydo

    I could qute Sripture, but it's over your head. You just wouldn't understand, being like a chicken, dog or Muslim.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Freydo - Are you going to behave like a 12 year old or are you interested in intelligent discussion?

  • freydo
    freydo

    Well what is it that you understand that chickens and dogs don't that sets you apart in terms of greiving?

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