An atheists grieve

by Borges 40 Replies latest jw friends

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  Borges

  I'm reading here almost every day (kind of adicted I think). But due to the fact, that my english isn't very good, I abstain from commenting most of the time.

  Nevertheless I'd like to share some thoughts with you.

  When I learned the TATT over a year ago I quickly became an atheist. I've read so many books about the bible, about science and evolution that there was no room left for any kind of belief. On one side it was a great relief. No more fear of dying in armagedon, no more bothering of a bad conscience, no more bad feelings because of considering myself as a sinner, who needs grace or forgiveness.

  On the other hand I'm struggeling almost every day with the fact, that one day I have to die forever. It is a bit crazy. More than 40 years as a wittness I was afraid of beeing wiped out by angry Jehovah. No I know, this won't happen. But still I have to die some day and so the reslut will be the same. When I'm gone, I'm gone for good.

  I'm not a spiritual man, never was, even in my zealous years as bethelite and elder. Almost everthing I did, I did because of my eagerness to live for ever. Life is such a precious thing and I love everything that is perceptible to the senses and everthing that challenges my brain. I know all the arguments why an everlasting life is not just impossible but allthough not desirable. And maybe it would be hell at some point, but this doesn't affect my longing for an ever ongoing future.

  So I find myself in a bifid situation: freed from any kind of superstition and guilt instilling concepts that insult my intelligence and my humantity, but living in the cold as a metaphysical homeless (speaking metaphorically - I've got a lot of things that makes my life worth living. It is just the thought of the unevitable).

  If somebody showed me a proof that god exists, I would like to believe. I would love to believe. But I'm convinced this proof doesn't exist. Besides all the facts about the bible, all the scientific facts and the suffering religion brought over mankind, there are two arguments why it is impossible for me to believe in any kind of a supreme beeing: confusion & mystery. If there is a god, he must be uncontradicted in every way und understandable for everyone.

  Julian Barnes, a well known british novelist once put in words what I'm feeling. He said:

  "I don't beliefe in god, but I do miss him"

  Maybe some of you share this kind of feelings.
• 

  PSacramento

  I think that it is natural for you to feel this grief, this void.

  I think that eventually you will probably find something to fill it.

  As a believer I HOPE that it will be Christ BUT I understand if it is not, so I only ask that you live your life with love, compassion and tolerance in your heart.

  Be the change you want to see happen, love others as you would have them love you.

  I think that, in doing that, regardless of your belief or lack their of, you will be a good person that is loved and is loving.
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  yalbmert99

  Borges : here is an article I wrote on my site about "god" :

  Many people believe in « god » or other « gods ». That comforts them, gives them hope and a simple explanation for the origin of everything. However, that gives them a false sense of security.
  
  There is not a single serious evidence that supports the existence of « god » or other « gods ». « God » in its traditional definition of supreme being probably does not exist for three simple reasons:
  
  1-We don't see « god ».
  2-« God » doesn't talk to us (at least directly).
  3-« God » doesn't help us.
  
  Certainly, religions and cults have invented various arguments of varying complexity to justify these three problems, but these are only delusions or lies. For example, some will say that "god" speaks through the torah, the bible or the koran. This is false. These books were inspired by human beings, not by "god".
  
  Some would say that it took a "god" to create everything, otherwise how the universe and life would appear? This is a bad argument, because one could also ask who then created "god"?
  
  Some will ask why does life exist? Complex chemical reactions that occured for a long time generated the first unicellular living beings. Then, evolution of the species generated all the life forms that exist and have existed.
  
  The real question is not why life exists, because we already know why. The unanswered question is rather why the universe started to be, that is 13.75 billion years ago. Astrophysicists know that the universe began in a singularity and then there was the big bang and the rest got going, fundamental forces, fundamental particles and so on.
  
  There are four fundamental forces in our universe :
  
  -Strong interaction.
  -Weak interaction.
  -Electromagnetism.
  -Gravity.
  
  It is possible that these forces have a common origin which is the foundation of the universe, its creative force. But not a "god" as the different religions or cults speak of.

  In conclusion, for sure "god" doesn't exist, but something else does. We don't know for sure what will happen to us after we die. We might come back to life or not, but there is no need of a god to do that.

  http://www.watchtowerlies.com/watchtowerlies_166.htm
• 

  designs

  Its natural to want to leave some footprint that says we were here and that you mattered. Think about your legacy, somethings that will pay benefits to someone or the earth.

  'Trees I planted in my youth are now 100' tall'
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  MrFreeze

  I'm not too worried about my death. As Louis C.K. said in his one comedy special, we've been dead for a lot longer than we were alive. Essentially we are just dead people who haven't died yet.

  And as musician Warren Zevon sang, I'll sleep when I'm dead. It'll be nice to have a long nap.
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  cofty

  Thanks for thoughtful post Borges.

  I have no fear of death but I will be really pissed about all the stuff I will miss.
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  sizemik

  Well there's nothing wrong with your english . . . you should post more often.

  I look at it this way . . . the inevitable is exactly the same regardless of what you believe. If you strive to be a good person . . . what can a just God hold against you anyway?

  I'm like cofty . . . my kid's will know in 50 years stuff I can't even dream of. On the positive side, we live in a great age of discovery . . . and the day I go . . . I will want to know the latest discoveries from the day before. Think of all who have gone before us who never got to learn the things we know now.

  I quite like Mark Twain's philosophy too . . . I was dead for millions of years before I was born, and it never inconvenienced me one bit.
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  snare&racket

  It feels like an obvious con now....

  but they promised us solutions to all our fears and wants...to see dead loved ones, to be healed, to have financial security, to have a home, to have food, to have everlasting life, to never die....

  It is quite literally the car salesman that tells you everything you want to hear. There is no evidence or guarantee as to when, but its 100% going to happen......REALLY SOON!

  They told us lies that we took to heart, like how it is unatural to die... In reality its natural to want to live. Try drowning a cat and see how much it wants to live, does that mean cats are destined for everlasting life?

  i think the best way to solve your turmoil my friend, is perspective and talking. See what others think and feel. For me Hitchens helped, he spoke of not fearing death, does the year 1873 inspire dread and fear in you? No.... But you were not alove, there was simply nothing for you... Yet millions of people were alive. Likewise 2173 will be the same. How lucky we are to have lived. To live forever is to deny the opportunity of life to our offspring, to others.

  As for missing god. The god many people miss, is not the god of the bible. The friendly father figure that cares if you are sad, does not even exist inn the bible. He is a genocidal, homophobic, sexist, racist, slavery commanding, incest inducing, kidnap and rape suggesting, death celebrating dictator who demands worship and blood sacrifice.

  What would we think of a human that was capable of global genocide? Not only is he non existant, the promises are too. The promises of armaggeddon were at the expense of death of all tose non worshipping people. Go take a walk to a childrens park and ask if they all deserve to die so yu can have a garden with a tiger. Go visit a hospital and watch the nurses work crazy hours helping people. Try telling me that they are evil and deserve gods judgement. They dont, nobody does.

  Dont miss such a person. Be proud of the moral person you are. You are more moral than your previous god.

  science offers amazing answers, insights, purposes and awe. A beautiful perspective of life is on offer down a microscope or through a telescope. What makes it even better....... Its real

  snare x
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  OUTLAW

  Try drowning a cat and see how much it wants to live..

  

  .............................. ...OUTLAW
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  NewChapter

  I often think that if this hope was never fed to us, we would handle the inevitable much better. But because we were told we could live forever, we formed around that, and perhaps even feel cheated when we learn it simply is not true.

  If someone told me there was a grand treasure at the top of the mountain, and I could have it if I go get it, I may go to extraordinary lengths to get it. If on reaching the top, I find now treasure, then I will experience grief and disapointment. I will look back on my life and consider all the sacrifices and devotion I wasted on chasing a lie. But if nobody ever told me there was a treasure on top of that mountain, then I would live my life with no such desire. I may wish that I had some treasure, but I would not count on it or put my hopes into it, therefore, my disappointment would just not reach the level of those that searched to find it wasn't there.

  I focus on how much richer my life is now that I've shed superstition and lies. Much richer. Unfounded guilt, artificial prohibitions, brain patrole, constant internal inventories---I'm free of all of that. And so I can enjoy what I have instead of waiting for the real stuff to start. That's a great gift, and I wish I had found it sooner. But it is what I have, and I will enjoy it to the fullest.

  Christopher Hitchens wrote a book called Mortality. I have not read this book, but understand he wrote it when he knew he was dying. There may be something in there to put it into perspective. If you do read it, share some of it with us. It's on my list, but I can't get to it just yet.