Father..son and wait a minute!! The holy ghost seems to be hiding in the above ??
Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.
by Johnny Brown 62 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
cofty
Welcome to the forum Johnny Brown.
It is certainly true that JWs do not view Jesus in the same way as early christians.
You might want to have a look at this article for lots of specific examples...
However it is a mistake to go to the other extreme and try to read the trinity back into the text. The trinity is a post-biblical attempt to reconcile monotheism with worship of Jesus. It is self-contradictory. Perhaps you could try to explain it succinctly in your own words without contradicting yourself?
Christianity is just another set of unfounded statements about reality. Skepticism is your friend.
I'm curious that you became convinced about god because you survived a 150 mph crash. How do you explain the thousands of people who die every day in accidents, natural disasters, childhood cancers and numerous other capricious events?
-
jhine
Welcome Johnny,
I am a never a JW Trinitarian (Anglican ) of many years . I agree wholeheartedlywith the point that you are making. . The Watchtower absolutely sideline Christ and put the Governing Body in His place as mediator between Jehovah and the masses of JWs who are not part of the annointed (the 144,000 ) .
This tactic seems to be solely for the purpose of control . Many who have been JWs and who are nominally still JWs will agree with this and also that the Watchtower is a cult .
Jan
-
cofty
Jan, perhaps you too could accept the challenge of explaining the trinity succinctly, in your own words, without contradicting yourself? -
WheninDoubt
Hello to you all. I’m new to the forum and I this topic interesting. However I found it somewhat confusing to wanting to disprove the JW bible.
JB states that the JW bible refers to Jesus as God or that JW’s have that belief. Reading Romans 10:9 where this topic came about, Paul the Apostle (Tertius the Scribe) was referring to the salvation through Christ if you choice to believe in him, since the chosen people of Israel had fallen out of favor in the eyes of YHWH, the invitation for personal salvation was extended to all the rest of us. Of course referring to verse 12. On verse 12 “there is the same lord over all” represents there is no distinction of who can have everlasting life since in the ancient world only the Israelites were given that privilege. Now the confusion really lies with verse 13 where the JW replace the word lord with Jehovah. Since the WT doesn’t depend on translating the bible other than from original scripts. In the Original script the word YHWH was replaced by early monks and the early Catholic Church with LORD instead of GOD since they had no understanding or were not willing to understand the meaning of YHWH even though the first Century Christians based it on the word YAHWEH which was condensed to YHWH in fear early Romans would not persecute them for being Christians as we all know only too well Early Romans would capture a Christian and throw them to the Lions for sport or for not bowing down to their Pagan Gods.
The Roman version of replacing the double VV to W in which case they viewed the name YAHWEH to YAHVEH which in turn has become the name Jehovah for the modern JW.
So I don’t see the argument that JB made about Jesus being GOD. It was the early translators that brought that confusion upon the world and none were named Jehovah Witness.
1611 King James Bible
9That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth the Lord Iesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart, that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saued.
11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoeuer beleeueth on him, shall not bee ashamed.
13 For whosoeuer shall call vpon the Name of the Lord, shall be saued.
-
The Searcher
Johnny Brown said - "I did have a vision that saved my life in a 150Mph car wreck."
Please compare the experience on page 138 of the 2013 Yearbook of J.W.'s -
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/?contentLanguageFilter=en&pubFilter=yb13&sortBy=1
and tell us if you believe that God felt these Witnesses needed more chickens and were more precious than other people who really suffer.
Also, when paedophiles, rapists, & drug dealers get away with it and live long, happy lives, was God responsible for their fortunate circumstances?
In a nutshell, why would God save you, and not all those people in the twin towers, etc.?
I don't want to worship a God who is partial (Acts 10:34) and interferes prematurely with Satan's rulership of this earth! (Luke 4:6; John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; Ephesians 2:2; Ephesians 6:12;
2 Corinthians 4:4; 1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9.The fact is that good and bad things happen to everyone - whether they are Christians, anti-Christs, or sincere atheists! (Eccl. 9:11; Matt. 5:45)
-
pbrow
9,000,000 children die every year before they reach the age of 5. That is 10,000 children A DAY.
Your god or any god for that matter did not care about you and your 150 mph crash. You just got lucky.
pbrow
-
WheninDoubt
Johnny Brown said - "I did have a vision that saved my life in a 150Mph car wreck." Are you referring to JB or Johnny Quest????
Please compare the experience on page 138 of the 2013 Yearbook of J.W.'s - and tell us if you believe that God felt these Witnesses needed more chickens and were more precious than other people who really suffer.
Hear I believe you answered your own question since that article you referenced NOT FORSAKEN CHRISTIAN GATHERING and you must have had personal knowledge in the suffering of the people in Myanmar ( Burma) of that time while the subject of your question were somehow rich and considered blessed.
Were those Christians rewarded for being better than any other poor person in Burma or was it upon their return they found themselves worse off than any other poor person in Burma but by placing their faith and trust in YHWH they had their stolen chickens replaced a year latter 3 fold. I believe for Christians, it would compare to JOB in a small sense.
Also, when pedophiles, rapists, & drug dealers get away with it and live long, happy lives, was God responsible for their fortunate circumstances? Hear I believe you have twisted the parable. It would be the GOD of this earth which for a Christian would be SATAN not YHWH, so yes Satan would be the one to reward the above mentioned…………
In a nutshell, why would God save you, and not all those people in the twin towers, etc.? I hope you realize that Many JW’s perished in the Twin Towers in 9/11/2001. YHWH has nothing to do with the evil men do to each other. If we haven’t learned anything from the O.T. which is the purpose of it, then humanity will never learn the true nature of Christ words in the N.T.
I don't want to worship a God who is partial (Acts 10:34) and interferes prematurely with Satan's ruler ship of this earth! (Luke 4:6; John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; Ephesians 2:2; Ephesians 6:12;
2 Corinthians 4:4; 1 John 5:19; Revelation 12:9. Why would YHWH consider terminating these minor miracles considering the majority of humanity believe him dead or none existent as you yourself have placed him? YHWH stills needs to assert that he is a living GOD as told by his Son Jesus Christ our lord and savior.The fact is that good and bad things happen to everyone - whether they are Christians, anti-Christ’s, or sincere atheists! (Eccl. 9:11; Matt. 5:45) Of course, all of humanity is imperfect. The misconception hear though is not fully understood. The reference you make here is for: LOVE YOUR ENEMIES. What would this pertain to or have to do with the evil that man makes against man. The evil that holds us all hostage. The God of this earth Satan that manipulates us all like puppets if we let him and in turn we blame it falsely on YHWH. Jeremiah 5:24, Matthew 5:9, Luke 6:35, Acts 14:17, Philippians 2:15. If humanity separates good from evil on a daily bases, then why can’t GOD YHWH do it, separate the Sheep from the Goats.
-
jhine
Whenindoubt , as far as I know and others will agree including leading
bible scholars the tale about the Tetragrammaton being taken out of the New Testament is false . The Tetragrammaton NEVER appeared in the New Testament . None of the very early manuscripts contain YHWH . How could YHWH be taken out of all the copies of the New Testament worldwide , and yet not one has been found containing it . This is another JW fabrication . JWs do not refer to Jesus as God that is the point of the thread .
Cofty I have seen your post . I do not know why it is important to you that someone put this into their own words as better mind than I have explained the Trinity and I'm not sure that any explanation will satisfy someone who does not want to believe , however . Jan
-
cofty
Jan - If you can't explain it simply in your own words you don't understand it.
The trinity is exactly like the Watchtower's "overlapping generation" doctrine. It makes no sense, everybody knows it makes no sense and nobody can explain it without parroting the official formula.
The early church had a dilemma. How do you reconcile monotheism with the the adoration of Jesus? The simple answer is that you can't. A ridiculous form of words was agreed on that depends on esoteric Greek notions like homoousios, and hypostasis.
It is total nonsense that depends on an appeal to authority and tradition.
My challenge stands that you explain it in your own words without committing a heresy or contradicting yourself.