It's time I face the truth about my belief in God.

by Cagefighter 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Cagefighter

  I don't beleive in him, at least not like most Christians do. As some have described before the "sky daddy" version of God has not been able to be rationalized by cagefighter's brain for some time.

  Does this mean I don't believe in a Divine power/entity? No

  Does this mean I do not consider my self a Christian? No

  Does this mean I think the Bible is worthless? No

  Let me try and explain:

  1. I believe "God is Love", not because John 4:8 says so, but becuase my entire life experience and every cell in my body says so. When we can suppress our carnal nature in favor of acting in self sacrificing love, we tap into something that is divine and creative. It is the power that makes the universe go around. Otherwise we would still be wearing animal skins and raping and stealing from eachother in short chaotic lives like dogs or other wild animals. If you think about it, the fact that any kind of civilzation exists is a bit remarkable. The more brutish genes should have won out a long time ago and kept us dragging our knuckles around the more temperate zones of the planet.

  2. I believe the actual teachings of Christ are the only hope to save us from our selves as individuals and society. If we can treat both our neighbors like ourselves as we should be treated, while learning to forgive our own and other's faults, that is life and spirit changing. There is no two ways about it in my experience.

  3. I believe the Bible contains just as many truths as it does exaggerations, fables, and concoctions. It also our history and culture wrapped up into a neat little package, kind of like my late grandmother. There was a lot of wisdom in my grandmother and honest direction that I still use today. However, there was a lot about my grandmother that was very human. Here attitude towards blacks, gays, and even religion were all shaped by her own life and short comings. Does it make all the good and wise about her wrong, nope. It means she was human and a product of her generation and geography. Just like cagefighter has his own biases, yet he can still spout off something profound and wise from time to time. Again, this power comes from point # 1 . When we tap into the unselfish love we can do and express things we did not think we could.

  So this leaves me with a predictament, where do I go from here? Do I smuggly sit and sneer and ridicule those that believe in the sky daddy?

  Absolutley not. Let's think about the place of religion in the first place.

  Religion gives people a third venue outside of family and career to belong. Many "non-believers" suffer from cyncism, which is almost the opposite of that divine love I spoke of before. Personally, regardless of the accuracy of the bible or what others believe about God, I want as much of that divine love in my life as possible. I could join a buddahest monestary, or a Unitarian church, but where does that leave me?

  I think my (methodist) church is "liberal" enough for me to share this love and continue growing. Obviously if I was in a more fundamental church that took the bible more literally I could not do this. If/when I have kids, I think I would bring them up in the same church while reminding them it is ok to have doubts and discuss them. When they are old enough (teenagers) I would share my most personal beliefs (including this) and let them know my reasons for bringing them up in the church. Leadership opportunties, learning a firm foundation of our culture and history, making friends and learning about that divine love.

  Last but not least, let's be brutally honest about the "effective IQ" (the intellegence level) the world operates on as a whole. I estimate it is somewhere between 80-90. Do we really want 7 billion people waking up and living life on the "nothing matters but making me happy today" model? I think we go back to my original point and are wearing animal skins and raping/killing eachother in about a decade. Most of the world needs the guardrails that the Chrisitan religion provides, the rest must live under dreary dictatorships or Islam in order to function. There is no utopia on this planet. So my position on more fundamental Christians is, I don't knock them. I think they are where they need to be like children in Kindergarten. I know they are learning with fingerpaints, silly songs, and games. However, we can't start running a muck in public covered in glitter and mumbling wiggles songs if we are on a higher level, but neither should they be condemed for doing so as long as they aren't hurting others directly and we aren't giving them more power than they deserve.

  Just a few thoughts, I hope I managed to keep them coherent.
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  botchtowersociety

  Cagefighter, this is one of the best things I've ever read on this board. You've done an excellent job putting into words what I personally have a hard time describing. I remain Christian for largely the same reasons as well.

  Thanks for sharing it.

  BTS
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  Scott77

  Marked for later reading. Thank you CF.

  Scott77
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  sabastious

  Awesome post.

  -Sab
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  clarity

  I love what you wrote Cage, especially this...>

  "3. I believe the Bible contains just as many truths as it does exaggerations, fables, and concoctions. It also our history and culture wrapped up into a neat little package, kind of like my late grandmother"

  >

  Wonderful job of tucking those disquieting beliefs together,

  and putting them into a useful and beneficial ideology.

  >

  Kind of like the patched quilts that our grandmothers stitched up

  from small treasured bits of cloth.

  Hmm makes me feel all warm & comfy

  clarity
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  OnTheWayOut

  1. That is a wonderful expression. No matter my feelings on why humans are far superior to other mammals in love, I wouldn't attempt to sour your view.

  2. I have to disagree about "....the only hope to save us from our selves as individuals and society..." I think most religion hinders mankind, including Christianity. But you are talking about the written teachings, alledgedly from Jesus. I hope you can broaden out your reading and see that eastern thought already covered the writings about Jesus' teachings.

  3. I won't waste my time on the Bible. Unless you are a descendant of the Hebrews, it is not your history. It is a window into past culture, including prejudices and faulty thinking. Luckily, even firm believers are not really reading their Bibles. Watch the movie, BOOK OF ELI. The underlying message is that the Bible is a tool and, more often, a weapon.

  If you have such a wonderful state of "spirituality" then I suggest you just continue to tune out on debates over such stuff and find your own trail. Personally, I feel that your comment, "nothing matters but making me happy today" can fit into the Christianity/Jesus/Bible mindset also. People want to retain a low effective IQ about their religion or Bible so that it doesn't interupt their happiness in Christianity/Jesus/the Bible. I am glad most of humankind outgrew the Old Testament orders to rape and pillage the villages of those with other beliefs. But I am okay with people just wanting to be happy if they don't try to convert the world. If they love their church, their religion, their Bible, great for them.

  I hate Islam. It seems like a huge cult to me. It definitely doesn't want to contain itself, but spreads its influence. But, in my opinion, Christianity is only a backwards way of thinking that has advanced a bit beyond Islam. If "Most of the world needs the guardrails that the Chrisitan religion provides" then we are doomed because most of the world is not within Christianity and more and more of it is leaving Christianity.

  After I dash religion and the Bible and Chrisitianity, I do have great hope for mankind. Going back to your point 1, I do feel that mankind has advanced incredibly in love and fellow feelings. I believe we are infants in that, and will advance even more if we survive the shackles of racism and political and religious controls over people. I bet we do it eventually.
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  EndofMysteries

  cagefighter - that is the truth the bible teaches and the different parts in the bible which appear contrary to that, there is a reason for those. This is nice, you and the person last night about what their family believes, this is a little what I am talking about that even if I don't post the information and video I am working on, that one of the things happening now is many will start waking up to the true truth. The spirit is moving people. When cold hard facts start spreading to back it all up, then it will accelerate. The true facts revealed and the spirit moving our hearts, can see the downfall of religion (as we know it right now), real fast.
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  Etude

  Cagefighter:

  1. I'm not trying to shake the ground you walk upon. I think that your choice of beliefs promotes and emanates from goodness. But perhaps you don't give yourself enough credit for you being the source of goodness, apart from God. And, I believe that the divine and creative forces your body and life experience generate would be there whether you believed in God or not. That you choose to believe in some form of God is a natural consequence of our inevitable sense of spirituality. You are correct, but I like to keep it in perspective.

  2. While the teachings of Christ revolutionized the world, many of its components were not unknown to the world before or since Christ. There is a redeeming and egalitarian quality about what he preached or is attributed to him if he actually existed. Just remember that in the history of mankind, we can conceive that a lot of people thought and acted with those principles way before Christ showed up on the scene. Therefore, you can choose to materialize all your humanity in one person (Christ) or realize that even without that person, the feelings you project are just as significant valuable.

  3. You're absolutely right, there is a lot of exaggeration as well as facts in the Bible. That's what, upon sincere analysis and apart from the importance some the major religions of this world place on it, I conclude that as point of reference and lore, it's quite ordinary. It's difficult to trust its sources and therefore much of the stories in it. They say the Babylonians were prone to exaggerate their history (as well as the Egyptians). Yet, the Code of Hammurabi produced by the Babylonians is a great example of principles that we still live by today, which were copied in the Bible. Therefore, while it can offer guidance, the Bible is by no means an arbitrary source for our lore and for our cultural heritage, although it should be noted. We have the power to shape our future and to control what influences it.

  The reason I reply to your wonderful comments is to expose the possibility for other choices. I am a non-believer. Yet, I'm not cynical. I am critical of religious affirmations, but I'm not beyond recognizing the need to feel spiritual. I am highly suspect of "miracles", but I'm willing to concede, upon a thorough investigation, that I don't know enough to conclude either way.

  I've heard that the Unitarian Church (perhaps the "Reformed" version of it) is even more liberal and receptive than the Methodist denomination. Perhaps that's because they don't have specific tenets about what and whom to worship, even though they appear to allow you to worship and believe as you may. You might want to consider them. I'm thinking about it myself while planning to remain a devout agnostic.

  I often think about this sense of "other" we have that makes us look up and be in awe and feel connected to the universe and maybe even gives us a sense of hope. That seems to me to be an innate human attribute, which is often corrupted and misguided when religion comes into the picture. If think about centuries of isolated natives in the jungles of South America, I can conceive of at least one society with rules and guidelines (your "rails") that make sense within the content of their society. Sure, some people will point out that some cultures were head-hunters, etc. But anomalies like that are true in our very society in spite of "rails", like shooting a young girl for advocating school for females or killing a doctor because he performed an abortion. Since the word "civilized" has been applied to any of us humans, even though we've had many conceptual and technical advancements, we've changed very little. Instead, we just have more stuff.
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  Christ Alone

  Cage fighter, I read some things in your post that I've never really thought about before. It was beautiful. While I disagree on some things, I loved the post. The point you made about the worlds intlligence level and what would happen if everyone just started living only to make themselves happy is a very strong plus in the argument that Jesus and his teachings are important. A guardrail like you said. wONDERFUL post!!!
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  cofty

  Some fair ponts but I disagree with this...

  The more brutish genes should have won out a long time ago

  The term, "survival of the fittest" (not Darwin's phrase) has caused many to think in terms of the biggest, strongest, best predator thriving.

  Actually genes for cooperation and empathy is what has made Homo sapiens so successful.