My reply may seem harsh or heavy handed... Especially "disqualifying" people from discussions, but let me explain, because I think it is very serious...
Imagine you are away on holiday with your kids, you are with 2 friends. One of the kids gets a very bad fever. One friend says " wrap him in cold towels and give him asprin to bring his temperature down!" he knows this because thats what he was told at first aid training some years ago. The second is a nurse and says "i have seen this before and seen the evidence for what to do in the literature, we should do nothing!"
The first aider then shouts "no...thats not true, thats the opposite of true!"
Would it be fair to ask how the first aider knows this?
How do you know this?
First aider "i am sure thats what we were taught in first aid training some years ago"
Have you ever read the evidence the nurse is talking about?
First aider " no...but there is no point, i know it says to do the opposite of what i was told!"
But how can you be sure without knowing the evidence?
Nurse "you are right Mr First aider, I once thought the same thing but now I have seen the evidence! The temperature actually kills the bacteria!"
first aider " well i havent seen the evidence you are talking about, but i know what i was told, besides asprin never killed a child!"
nurse " actually, by reducing the temperature, children have died with fevers!"
So who are you going to listen to? Lets say you could press PAUSE in time, and spend a few days reading the evidence the nurse was talking about, would you choose not to?
I am 'all ears' for those that do read all the facts even if they come to a different conclusion than I did, in fact these are the most interesting people to talk to on earth! But if you are not interested in seeing WHY we no longer accept the bible or a god, then there is no point having a discussion. Read the evidence and at least see where we are coming from! FACTS and EVIDENCE are without bias or judgment. Dont throw back a cheap "how dare you, we are not stupid, ignorant....bla bla bla" I'm not saying you are, nobody is born informed ,we all had to read the books/info above. It is obvious by your questions, arguments and sarcasm that many of you havent read all the facts available to a human in 2012 on nthe issues we debate here at the forum. It just makes for a very uninteresting, frustrating time.
There is a video of Dawkins talking to a christian female (wendy?), she keeps asking for evidence of evolution, he repeatedly tells her it exists and that it is in the literature and museums, she laughs, states that it is not and asks again 'show me the evidence.' At one point she asks for intermediary fossil evidence, not really understanding what that means, for every fossil is exactly that. But Dawkins being a decent chap, ignores her ignorance and the evidence of her lack of informed reading and suggests the fossil evidence of reptilian jaws progressing into the formation of early inner ears. He explains how we have a beautiful chronological line of evolution, preserved in the fossils of this amazing process... Her response? 'show me the evidence'
This forum often feels the same as watching that video....so very damn frustrating. I remember Ndrew thinking she was clever by asking for a book on pre-evolution devlopment, i.e. abiogenesis... I instantly suggested one to her. For a week I asked her if she had bought it yet, had she read it yet... Eventually she admitted she never was going to buy it, yet daily on these pages she kept up the pretense "how did life begin on earth?" .... If you really want the answers... Buy the books! If you dont, dont join in and pretend that you do....
here is the big question.... TRUTH OR WHAT IS COMFORTING TO YOU
Its a hard decision, all the best in your choice.
snare x