A problem with my daughter

by DATA-DOG 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  biblecheck

  ----> DesirousOfChange It would be rare for a child young adult of 16 years of age to be capable of making a decision that will affect their life forever

  When does someone become capable of making a a decision that will affect their life forever? 20yo, 30yo, 40yo, 60yo? People in all of these age categories make mistakes that impact the rest of their lives constantly. When do you become an expert in that area? That's how you learn in life - making mistakes. She is 16 not 12. Stating the fact that because she can't "legally marry", so that's a reason to manipulate events so that she never gets baptised - is treating this young adult as though she can't think at all for herself. Sorry not a great parenting strategy.

  ----> DesirousOfChange Yes, you can ASK her what she wants, but you should still strongly attempt to persuade her to do what YOU (the parent) feels is the right thing to do

  One of the biggest mistake parents can make, is to not be truly honest with their child. When the father is completely open and honest about what he believes, then there is no need for him to be stalling about OPENLY discussing he truly believes. Anything outside of that is manipluation. Sorry but in my opinion, she is too old to be treated in this way. I agree baptism is not a good option, but the father can never, truly reach his daughter's heart and motive her in the right way until he is opens up himself.
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  DATA-DOG

  Thanks everybody. It is a tough decision. I have to get my thoughts straight first. I think the real problem for me is I feel that I cannot defend my stance about TTATT. I KNOW what I have read personally. I can spot inconsistencies, I can read all the old literature and see what was really taught in the past, I can see the manipulation that goes on. I just can't make anyone else see it. You cannot convince a JW that ANYTHING the GB says is wrong. So thats part of my hesitation of coming right out and spilling TTATT. I don't want my family broken up either. So Biblecheck is right about me being fearful, and I hate that about myself, but I am working on that alittle more every day. As far as anyone pressuring my daughter to get baptized, that is not happening...yet. If my wife was pressuring her then I would be moving faster, but thankfully she is not. It is my daughters decision if she wants to be baptized or not. It is my responsibility as her parent to make sure that she has ALL the information needed to make a correct decision. She may get baptized no matter what I say. She may see in the future that I was telling the truth after all, and get out. I wish that the WTBTS would be dead and gone before she has to make that decision. Of course, that would be wishful thinking on my part. I have to plan like the WTBTS will be around for ever. I also have to be completely honest without saying too much too fast. To do otherwise would be a betrayal to my daughter in my opinion. No matter what, I want her to look back and know that I never lied to her.
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  jws

  Depends on what baptism means to her. For me, it was just a checkmark on an invisible list of things people had for me. I had this idea that I needed it to be saved at Armageddon, but it didn't make me more committed to being a JW than I already was (or wasn't).

  The night I got baptised, my brother and I met some worldly girls staying in a room down the hall. Made out with two of them that night and probably could have scored if I wasn't scared to go that far. That's how serious it made me towards the faith.

  And when it came time to leave, my JW baptism didn't stop me or give me a moment's worth of pause.

  I did it because others wanted me to and never felt in my heart that it meant anything binding.
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  Cold Steel

  TBH I don't think you read DATA-DOG's comments too well prior to posting. Your "I don't know if..." has been clearly answered.

  I read the comments very carefully. Many critics are active JW members, just to keep the family together. Some hide their criticisms, yet go to church regularly.

  The OP has already explained "my daughter is making no plans that I know of to get baptized" and that he believes "she is too young". In the context of DATA-DOG's comments, the last thing his daughter needs from her father right now is his insistence that she have a home baptism.

  My comments are aimed at the situation when it eventually arises. Many requests for baptism come out of the blue. She may not be ready for a couple of years. But my advice stands for when she is ready.
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  Gayle

  In the lastest WT, Jan 2013 online, shows an example of a guy getting baptized at 20. (at least if he had baptized earlier he would have no doubt been DF'd and shunned). He had two other siblings waiting till older also. Seemed like the WT was accepting this as probably better for the guy. Kind of example to waiting till these kids are older??
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  OnTheWayOut

  You cannot convince a JW that ANYTHING the GB says is wrong. So thats part of my hesitation of coming right out and spilling TTATT. I don't want my family broken up either. So Biblecheck is right about me being fearful, and I hate that about myself, but I am working on that alittle more every day.

  Do not make this statement about an unbaptized person. She is not a JW. Kids are different than captured adults. They are looking for things, such as "Why should I not go to meetings or have a boyfriend?" Spend the money, contact Steve Hassan at freedomofmind.com and get some directions on how to save your daughter. Don't wait.
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  DATA-DOG

  On the way out,

  Good point, I appreciate that. Our family is pretty tight and everyone she knows and loves are dubs. I have already given her the 68' article about never growing old. I am going to ask her what her feelings are about it. I just have to get her to realize the GB are just people, and are not to be followed blindly. That would be a major victory that will pay off in the future.
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  LisaRose

  I don't think you need to make a big deal of it at this point. As time goes on and you become sure of your feelings about the Watchtower, you can discuss it as it comes up. Don't lay it all out at once, she might just get defensive, and not listen to you. It's more effective to ask leading questions "what do you think is a good reason to get baptized?" "Why do you think your friends are getting baptized so young?". That way you can respond appropriately at whatever stage she is in at the moment. Soon she will be seeing her fiends who are baptized, run into trouble, getting reproved or disfellowshipped, and that could be another opportunity to lead a discussion.

  Discuss college plans at another time, don't tie college in with not getting baptized, or she may feel she has to choose between the two. Look for an appropriate moment to ask her what she hopes to do, her interests and dreams. That could help her to start thinking about the future in non JW doom and gloom terms. Just help her expand her horizons a little, plant some seeds of thought. Take her to a concert or play at a nearby college, let her get a glimpse of college life. You cannot do what you cannot imagine!

  Take care, I hope things turn out well for you all.
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  whathappened

  She is your daughter for God's sake...yes, discourage her or even intervene if neccessary to keep her from making a huge mistake. If she were joining Scientology or the Moonies or the Mormons you would try to stop her, wouldn't you???
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  jeandeau

  Warning! Pay attention and get this straight! A baptism in the jehovahs witness religion is not a christian baptism. It is a legal oath and contract to obey the regulations of a legally recognized religious body. Undergoing a JW baptism binds her to all the regulations of the JW religion and to all rules that shall be imposed in the future as the leaders of the religios body see fit at any time in the future. Those rules and regulations will change. She will have no input in the future to this unilaterally altered contract. She gives up all legal redress to harm done to her by the organization where such is deemed to be in the realm of religious dogma not directly contrary to federal law. Review with her the content of the JW baptism vows. compare those with the baptismal accounts in the bible. The JW vows make her a slave to men. A real baptism is an expression of faith in Jesus and Jehovah with no attachment or obligation to any man or organization or whatever Orwellian double speak the WT organization uses to put itself on christs throne and Stick themselves in between men and God where thy don't belong. Our devotion to God sets us free. The ransom of Jesus life sets us free. Jesus came to earth to set us free. baptism as a JW will make her a slave to men again. At 16, your daughter wants desperately to be accepted in a peer group that reflects her values. She presenty knows only the local congregations and the JW realm. this is hardened and narrowed with the years to come. everyone should read Ïn Search of Christian Freedom"by Ray Franz, formerly of the governing body of JWs . It is avilable in PDF format for less than ten dollars. Ray illustrates well how the religion cripples our ability to be expansive and inclusive in our love for others and free to joyfully choose to express love. I cannot imagine a better baptism than telling all my friends to meet me down at the river for my baptism, and recieving my immersion by a friend or family member, without any religious vows. Baptism is into Jesus Christ, not a religion, let alone a sect or God forbid, a cult. Any pressure to conform via a baptism into a religion is seeking the favor of men, not God. I wish you the best. It seems impossible to create new friends and a new life but it truly is possible for most of us.