A problem with my daughter

by DATA-DOG 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jamiebowers

  Instead of approaching her with "please don't", why not approach her with "please do". Tell her that you feel that you missed out on a lot of things because you were baptized a her age and that you don't want the same to happen to her. Ask her what she's interested in doing...extra-curricular activities at school, advanced placement classes, clubs, organizations, etc. She should also be thinking about college applications and all that entails such as volunteer work, essays, scholarships, etc.

  There are so many healthy, helpful, and valuable activities, other than field service and preparation for baptism, that she could be doing. Direct and encourage her in those things, and she won't need baptism to establish credibility or gain self-esteem.
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  biblecheck

  DATA-DOG I don't know you or your family's situation, so this is my opinion generally speaking...

  If the parent has been completely honest with their children, then open discussion about true feelings towards "baptism" is never going to be a problem. If the parent believes the child is not mature enough to sensibly decide whether or not to get baptised, but she thinks she is, she will have the support of the congregation and the parent can either try to manipulate events to prevent the baptism from happening - or they take affirmative action by having a "real conversation" with her.

  The options are no more complicated than that.

  The question is however - have you been open and honest enough about what you believe to have that conversation with her?

  A general example - when someone is fence sitting in The Watchtower for the sake of waiting for the "right timing" or the "right situation", it's only then the web starts to weave and things get complicated. I left the Watchtower cut and dry - it was very hard facing my family and telling them - but when I realised that all of my life I had expected truth-seekers to give up their families and friends to become a baptized JW, why couldn't I practice what I preached?

  Truth can be painful at the beginning but it's worth every sacrifice. I have a friend still in the Watchtower who is to his own admission, living a double life. In that he knows its not the truth, but is "waiting for the right time" to leave - years have floated by and he is more miserable than ever - plus his realationship with his wife has become strained as a result. It has created resentment and some bitterness - they are wearing each other out. While my life continues to get better - his is circling in auto-pilot whe he waits for a miracle solution to come along where he can leave without, as he puts it, "any fall out". But The Watchtower net is tightening - his delaying tactic has not made life easier for him.

  Back to your daughter, I believe if she is an intelligent and relatively balanced/sensible 16yo, then, suggesting she "goes to college" etc to delay the decision making process is manipulation. Please don't be offended, this is not a criticism toward anyone here, but it is what it is. Good intention is not an excuse. In reality it's a delaying tactic to avoid the "real conversation" about what you believe!

  I have yet to meet anyone who has thanked their parent for "not being completely honest". Kids like to know where they stand with their parents.

  I've notice not one single person here has asked about her - what does she want? That is where I would start with her. She is 16 now, do you know what is in her heart - what she wants for herself - what are her hopes and aspirations for the future? Is college what you want or what she wants?

  One possible scenario, (not a statement or accusation):

  "Maybe she wants to one day leave the Watchtower but is too scared to tell you, because while you have been skirting the topic, she doesn't really know what you truly believe?"
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  DATA-DOG

  Biblecheck, OUCH!!! Painful but true, I appreciate that advice. Yes, I am stalling. I am trying to fade. I could be DF'd right now except I thought fading would be better. So right now after a month of Elders investigating me, I am stripped of all privlidges. Why? Because I said that If the Elders were using 10 hrs per month for a year as their basis for recommendations for appointments then they were not lead by Holy Spirit. The reason being because they have went beyond what is written at step #1. I also let them know how I felt about thier mishandling of pedophiles. So the CO got involved and feared I could become an apostate if not re-adjusted. I have told my wife how I feel, I even told her that I do not believe in the Spitirual Mother teaching, and that whatever the Org may have been, it has become a pharisaical, legalistic corporation.

  You are right I am waiting for the right time. I get what you are saying, but my daughter is making no plans that I know of to get baptized. In fact she KNOWS it is not something you do because your friends do it. She knows that her peers that are baptized are no more mature than she is. I have also told her that I will never pressure her to get baptized, and that pioneering is not a requirement. What does she want? She doesn't know, she just wants to be a kid and have friends. The kids she knows are all good kids, they are just Jw kids. Sooner or later she will be excluded because she is not baptized. In fact, she was told she could not even be used as a householder for a presentation because she was not baptized, and this was from an Elder. Don't get me wrong he is a nice guy, but he is misled. She was upset, and I used the occasion to talk to her about NOT rushing into things, and not letting others judge you. She is a great kid, and a great student. Still she has no idea what she wants to do. Is that normal? How would I know? I was raised a dub and had no plans, and no one encouraged me to do anything about the future. I was married by 19. She is an only child as well, but not spoiled. I have worked very hard to give her what I have learned was missing from my life, but at the same time not force her to be someone she is not. It is a tightrope balancing act.

  I have only recently learned the TTATT. So this is all new to me. I certainly don't want to manipulate her. I don't want to lie either. I appreciate EVERYONES advice. We just had our DC, no baptism. If the pressure is going to be put on her by her Mom then It will be this year prior to the next DC. My head is swimming. I am trying to wake up my wife too. I am realizing what TTATT means. I live a lie, or I don't. Right now I am just stuck and every day I have to be at a meeting is a mind numbing experience. The guilt of not going in service, inventing ways to skip, blah, blah, blah... it is getting to me. My Dad who was never a witness will be in town soon, maybe I will spill my guts to him. Thanks everybody.
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  biblecheck

  “One of the greatest discoveries a man makes, one of his great surprises, is to find he can do what he was afraid he couldn't do.”Ford
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  Cold Steel

  This is a tough call. On the one hand, you don't want her to be deceived, but on the other hand, you don't want to destroy her faith in Christ or Christianity. Also, if it destroys your marriage, that's another thing.

  First, I would insist on baptizing her myself if I were you. Then I would tell her that regardless of how she might feel about the Jehovah's Witnesses in the future, that her baptism would always be her commitment to Christ and the gospel. In other words, it would always be her symbolic acceptance of the gospel and not neccessary the church.

  I don't know if you're a JW or not, or whether you're in good standing; however, if you are, you have every right to baptize your daughter in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit yourself. Is it not so? What you want to do is make it a special day for her and one she'll remember, even if she chooses another path later. If the JWs want to do it themselves, simply find another place to baptize her and do it then do it yourself...even if an elder does it earlier.

  People who come out of the religion often come out with a feeling of hostility and of course they no longer recognize their earlier baptisms and other ordinances, if any. Anciently, people were baptized by water, then they were given the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. This apparently takes divine authority, which the WTS does not pretend to hold, so they say it's no longer necessary since only the apostles are seen by them as having that authority. But you can baptize her as a symbolic commitment to Christ and I wouldn't let the church tell me I couldn't. You have at least as much authority to baptize as they.

  What words do the baptizers use in the WTS?
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  OnTheWayOut

  Straight up- I don't have kids, so it's easy to say this. But I do mean this. Preventing her baptism is worth everything. It's worth money if founseling were needed. It's worth risking, even blowing your cover in a fade. It's worth getting DF'ed if it fame to that.

  I would work on finding the best way to help her learn that it's a dangerous mind control cult, and that you want her to go to college and have a career, find happiness with someone who is not a JW. I would start helping her learn that JW friends are conditional and she needs to look for real friends, because she is going to lose some (or all) of her JW friends eventually. (But tell her that many of her friends will leave the religion also so there's hope of retaining them.)
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  biblecheck

  ---> Cold Steel I don't know if you're a JW or not, or whether you're in good standing;

  TBH I don't think you read DATA-DOG's comments too well prior to posting. Your "I don't know if..." has been clearly answered.

  ---> Cold Steel First, I would insist on baptizing her myself if I were you.

  The OP has already explained "my daughter is making no plans that I know of to get baptized" and that he believes "she is too young". In the context of DATA-DOG's comments, the last thing his daughter needs from her father right now is his insistence that she have a home baptism.

  ---> What words do the baptizers use in the WTS?

  The really short version - "Get wet - or God will kill you at Armageddon!"

  The really secret version - "This is a life long binding contract - there is no escape"
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  OnTheWayOut

  Should read:

  Straight up- I don't have kids, so it's easy to say this. But I do mean this. Preventing her baptism is worth everything. It's worth money if Counseling were needed. It's worth risking, even blowing your cover in a fade. It's worth getting DF'ed if it Came to that.

  My little android phone letters are so close together. I hate posting from there.
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  designs

  I just hope her friends are not pressuring her. What are her peers doing about college or specialized job training.
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  DesirousOfChange

  I've notice not one single person here has asked about her - what does she want?

  It would be rare for a child young adult of 16 years of age to be capable of making a decision that will affect their life forever. That's why we do NOT let 16 year olds marry, have sex as an adult (see: statutory rape), enter into legal agreements, make health care decisions, etc.

  If all of her friends are taking the plunge, then of course she likely wants to follow along with them too. Peer pressure. (Data Dog says this is not the case here.)

  Yes, you can ASK her what she wants, but you should still strongly attempt to persuade her to do what YOU (the parent) feels is the right thing to do in such an important decision. . . . . WAIT!

  Doc