Jesus or Jehovah?

by Seven 42 Replies latest watchtower bible


    You can say Jehovah and Jesus however.

    The Hebrew language has all small letters so the words appearing in a sentence must be interpreted in their contextual setting or related to other proper verses.

    YAHWEH is GOD , Jesus is God .

    Yahweh is the ALPHA and OMEGA, Jesus is the Alpha and Omega.

    YAHWEH is SAVIOR, Jesus is Savior.

    144000 menservants of YAHWHEH and Jesus are gods ; so they are alpha and omega and saviors.

    Thanks to God that we have the English language to explain that !

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    Herne or Hecate?

    Pick one.

  • JamesThomas

    Archaic verse can be discussed endlessly. Or one can actually ponder on what "Alpha and Omega" points to. It points to That which has no "outside", That which encompasses all.

    Would it be wise to believe that an anthropomorphic, tribal, patriarchal deity can and does encompass all existence?

    I apologies for going outside the box of this discussion. I just wanted to point out that we can begin with the same basic words and actually use them to come to deep and significant understandings about the reality in which we live.....or not.

  • Terry

    What are we describing____actually____when we say "Jesus" or when we say "Jehovah"?

    A separate individual? Distinct, different, autonomous and discrete from another?

    That's what is so weird about a doctrine which affirms and describes something indescribable and not even described by scripture itself.

    The Trinity is more of a theory developed and the made official followed by punishment if you didn't go along with it.

    Imagine Jesus trying to teach this to his disciples? Hardly.

    The fact that we have to ask JESUS OR JEHOVAH demonstrates the non-unity of Trinity and the quest for constant clarification.

    The Trinity is more a product of primitive non-logical thinking from the pagan world than the Aristotle-influenced "law of the excluded middle"calling for either/or and non-contradiction.

    The ravings in Revelation are certainly fodder for over-active imaginations--but, to impose a Post-Enlightenment mindset to Pre-Enlightenment orthodoxy is a bit much!

    What is the reward for "understanding" anything in Revelation and how do you test your conclusion? Or, I should say: what reality can you measure the accuracy of your guess against to verify?

  • Ding

    The Watchtower's teaching is that Jehovah created Michael first and that Michael created all other things at Jehovah's direction.

    Yet that's not what Colossians 1:16-17 says. Not only does it say that all things were created by Christ but that also they were all created FOR him.

    All things were created for Michael the archangel???

    In Michael the archangel all things hold together??? (v. 17, if Christ is Michael as the WT teaches)

    Note also Isaiah 44:24 where Jehovah says he ALONE stretched out the heavens ALONE and stretched out the earth BY HIMSELF.

    This would seem to me to be in direct contradiction to Colossians 1:16 UNLESS Christ as well as the Father IS Jehovah.

    (I realize this discussion doesn't prove a trinity because we haven't even mentioned the Holy Spirit, but I find it best to take things one step at a time. First, let's try to come to a conclusion on who Christ is and then move on to the Holy Spirit.)

  • designs


    First step, get to a Synagogue and learn Judaism from a Rabbi..........

    If you rely, like we once did, on our former JW Leaders or go to a Baptist or Catholic source to learn about Judaism its like somebody pissing in the lemonade.

  • Ding


    I'm not sure what you're getting at.

    I'm not commenting on what rabbis teach.

    I'm comparing what the Old and New Testaments say about God (or Jehovah) and Christ and contrasting them to the teaching of the Watchtower.

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