by cedars 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Sabastious,
I am curious about your perspective. Who cares if others go nuts about it. What are your observations and factual connectors? Is the GB part of some illuminati that preaches separation from the "World" despite being in bed with the world?
I think Cedars breaks things up into palatable bites for us and thats why the majority give credence to his words.
Just because everyone has to jump through mental hoops to grasp your stance should not make you shy away from expounding.
Tylinbrando, Cedars is a powerful writer and an invaluable team member but he seems to be missing the mark as to WHAT the Watchtower is and WHO leads them and WHY. They understand mind control, or what we call mind control, more so than even Steven Hassan. Too much weight is put in this theory that they are somehow misguided relgious zealots. At least SOME of the GB are completely aware of what they are doing.
Ray Franz didn't speak too much about the occult connections that the Watchtower has because they are kept very secret. I don't think all the GB members are in on the secrets, I think they have to prove loyalty in order to be accepted into the higher order and Ray was always suspected to be a trouble maker. No, they are not illuminati, that's just a misdirection by the real group who controls the world, which are mind control artists (conspiracy theorists are by design to misdirect from the truth, but they are not all wrong). Watchtower subliminal art is not well discussed in the apostate community because it's hard to explain. This is because the people creating it have access to sciences that are not well understood by anyone outside of the secret order which discovered them first. All the outside can do is study the results of that mind control, not the mind control schema itself. People like Steven Hassan are making large strides in putting it altogether, but the full picture remains hidden for now.
Magic is real in the sense that it's not well understood science. Eventually all "magic" will be explainable by science, but the scientific community doesn't understand that they are dealing with deceit that's basically morally unfathomable. Consider this excerpt from a recent Watchtower article on the occult:
From youth, Barbara saw visions, heard voices, and was convinced that she had contacts with deceased relatives. She and her husband, Joachim, read books on the occult and became proficient in reading tarot cards. These indicated that they would earn big money, which they did in business. One day, the cards warned them that dangerous people would come to their home and told them how they should defend themselves. - Watchtower March 2012 page 20
It's interesting that the Watchtower is saying that Tarot Cards actually work when using them to become wealthy. Then they say that the cards actually predicted the arrival of the Witnesses who were described as "dangerous" by the cards. I have heard similar stories many times from many Witnesses who have been brought in by the preaching work, namely my mother in law. She recounts the story of the Witnesses coming to her door and explaining to her how the demons operated. This can suggest the subject into having an actual experience which will then be used to solidify programming in the mind which is next to impossible to undue. Hers was the feeling of being choked at night which she attributed to the "demons" the Watchtower had educated her on. The question is how does the Watchtower know how to induce mental response such as this? The answer is that their mind control framework is incredibly complex and not completely understood by the outside world, also it's secret and only explained to people high enough up in the order, which means they have been sufficiently tested. Consider how the article describes general practicing of magic:
What the Demons Want
The objective of the wicked spirits who communicate with humans is first to divert them from worshipping the true God, Jehovah. The gifts or powers that many practicers of the occult claim to have are nothing more than distractions to keep people from gaining accurate knowledge about God and building a relationship with him. The demons’ second objective can be seen in what Satan, their leader, attempted with Jesus. Satan offered Jesus “all the kingdoms of th eworld and their glory. ”What did Satan want in return? “Fall down and do an act of worship to me,” he urged. Yes, Satan and the demons desire to be worshipped. But Jesus rejected the idea of forsaking God and true worship.—Matthew 4:8-10. Evil spirits seldom make such direct offers today.Rather, they seek to ensnare the unwary with seemingly harmless means of diversion, such as crystal balls, tea leaves, tarot cards, pendulums, and horoscopes. Do not be deceived by such practices! They are not doorways to the unknown by means of some mysterious force of nature. Wicked spirits use fascination with the occult to lure and ensnare people with the aim of diverting them from worshipping Jehovah. When that does not achieve their goal, evil spirits often harass and make miserable those who become entangled in their web. If that has been true in your case, what can you do to free yourself from their influence?
It's telling that the Watchtower is saying that these "occult practices" such as using tea leaves are not the use of some mysterious force of nature, which is actually what they are. Like I said all magic is just misunderstood science and with the advent of the empirical discovery of the quantum field, such opens up the possibility of many things such as Tarot Cards and Horoscopes to be actually working with unknown sciences. The Watchtower seems to have an uncanny understanding of the inner workings of the occult and their practices. This is because they ARE an occult practice and things like Tarot Cards and Horoscopes serve as competition to their occult framework. In the end they are a corporation that makes money, but that money is spent on things that only the high ups know about. That's why they have to have a money laundering scheme with the Regional Building Committee, they don't want anyone to see where their money goes when they don't desire so.
In the end the Watchtower is a secret group bent on world domination and should be stopped at all costs. We must help the lost ones out and into the light, because I fear something terrible will come from all this. It's simply only a matter of time before these people get their lid completely blown and with that event will come an expose of the web that they part of, one can only hope. Freedom is not far away.
-Sab
Pentecostals are more nuts than the GB but they are 279 million and rapidly growing.
sabastious - thank you very much for your explanation and words of commendation. However, I think we will need to agree to disagree on your theory that the actions of the Governing Body are deliberately stupid and part of a long-term strategy of global domination. It's not entirely inconceivable in my mind that, as you put it, at least "some" GB members know what they're doing - but I can only draw conclusions from the evidence in front of me, and all of that evidence to my mind suggests that they are simply arrogant and deluded, and acting out of a mistaken belief that they are God's representatives on Earth.
We haven't arrived at a Governing Body in 2012 that is completely devoid of humility or intelligence by coincidence, rather it is a by-product of a flawed recruitment strategy that has been in place for decades, whereby incumbent GB members feel threatened by savvy, articulate and knowledgeable underlings and keep these at arm's length. The result is that, over time, you are left with a Governing Body that is composed entirely of unintelligent but self-important men. You can call this process "survival of the dumbest" if you will.
I do appreciate your efforts to explain your theories, but I can't really see anything in your above explanation that constitutes hard evidence. Even you must admit that most of what you are telling us is your own supposition. That's not to say there is definitely NO possibility of your theories being true, but I personally find it highly unlikely. I am willing to consider any theories so long as they are backed up by hard evidence. In the absence of hard evidence, I prefer not to believe them as fact. You can call it a legacy of spending the best part of my life believing the supposition of the Watchtower! I hope you understand. Like I said, I do appreciate hearing your point of view.
Cedars
Cedars, thanks for your point of view, it's always appreciated. The thing is that the Watchtower is a secret society so there's not going to be the type of hard evidence you are looking for (I personally don't think they make mistakes). Instead there will be a collection of clues that need to be put together in order to construct a coherent theory. I think if you wish to consider them an opponent then it's best not to underestimate them, and I fear you are. It's possible that we are both right. The GB could just be brainwashed drones that serve as a theological front for the members of the Watchtower society while the real power works invisibly behind the scenes. However, Anthony Morris III, imo, is an extremely suspicious figure, he's very smart and I cannot see him simply being a deluded drone. He knows what he's doing, I hold to that until I see evidence that proves me wrong. Keep up the great work, friend, the EX JW community should be honored to have you as a team member.
-Sab
Also Cedars, what do you have to say about Watchtower subliminal art?
-Sab
hi sabastious - thanks for that, it's refreshing to be able to agree to disagree!
On Anthony Morris III - I'm sorry but if you're looking for an evil mastermind, you're looking in the wrong place. Sure he's arrogant and self-obsessed, but he's also a monumental buffoon. I can't imagine your typical bond villain being able to produce a word like "thinkingest" - put it that way! As I've stated quite clearly, I think the collective evil of the Governing Body lies simply in their delusion of divine direction, and nowhere more sinister. If you were looking for an evil mastermind, I would point to Splane as a far more likely candidate. He speaks with an unnerving calmness and a slightly glazed look in his eyes - quitessential bond villain if you're searching for one. And he reportedly speaks French! I could just imagine him holed up in a mountain-top fortress somewhere in the Swiss Alps stroking a cat.
With subliminal artwork - again, I'm not a believer I'm afraid. There is just no motive or purpose for them to mess around with pictures in that way. Trying to find hidden meaning in Watchtower images is no more purposeful than doing something similar with cloud formations, in my humble opinion.
Here's a question for you - if the GB is hell-bent on global domination, how are their interests served by becoming MORE cult-like rather than pursuing the Mormon model and steering the organization more towards mainstream Christianity? Refusal to bring child abuse policies into full conformity with the law and cult-like clampdowns on internet mockery stand at complete odds with the LDS church's passive tolerance of the "Book of Mormon" musical and dabbling in politics. Thanks in part to Scientology the world is becoming progressively intolerant of cults. Any cult that wants a long-term future needs to be moving closer to mainstream religion, not away from it. In that context, how do you interpret the Governing Body's increasingly hard-line approach?
Cedars
Anthony Morris III is a ding-dong.
posted by seven006:
You're coming off as an authority on this subject is as amusing as you have come of in others. I have been a professional illustrator for over 25 years. I owned an art materials manufacturing company in the 80's as well as worked as the national marketing manager for two of the largest art material companies in Europe and Japan for 14 years. Iv sat on many boards ranging from the National Art Material Trade association to the national society of illustrators. My work has been published in some of the most prestigious art related magazines and books printed on illustration. In short, I know what the hell I'm talking about.
In 1984 the Watchtower society flew me back to Bethel to do some training and some consulting in their illustration, graphics, and photography departments. I reported directly to Dean Songer the head nut in charge. After spending a lot of time with the so called artist I gave my report to Dean covering what I thought about all three departments and the level of professionalism in them. My visit was cut short after reporting the truth they didn't want to hear. A few months after that I left the religion for good.
As far as the subliminal images in the watchtower publications, it's all wishful thinking on the part of some exJW's with over zealous imaginations. Iv seen the book about it as well as several of the original illustrations. What you have here is a simple case of "bad art" and "creative imaginations." Most of the people working in the illustration department are far from professional. The little images some think they see in folds and body parts are nothing more than the lack of expertise by the artist and poor use of light, shadow and texture. Out of all the artist I worked with there were only two that I considered half way proficient at what they did. As with most people working at Bethel, the illustrators are not professionally trained. That was the hope of the boys in Brooklyn that I could help some of these hobby artist become professional. I turned down their offer to move back there and try to make a difference. After the report I gave, I'm sure they were happy I did.
Through out the history of art people have claimed they have seen secret little images in some obscure piece of art. In some cases little hidden elements are done on purpose. Iv done a few myself when I knew I could get away with it and the image was not that critical. I wouldn't think of slipping in something on an illustration I do for Nike, Adidas, Disney or any of my bigger clients. It would mean death in the illustration world. There are a few famous cases from Disney that are used as examples in college illustration courses as well as a few workshops I taught in, in some of the 100 universities I lectured at. I have also seen these originals in some of my many visits to Disney studios. What someone thinks they see as opposed to what the illustrator intended is usually far from the same.
The Watchtower society (as far as I have been told and from what I have seen) has not used professional illustrators in the past or present. They would rather save a buck and have one of their slave hacks do it than a good job they had to pay someone for. They do buy stock photo images for their publications when it is warranted. Everything else is either shot in the watchtower photo studio or illustrated by their unprofessional illustrators. The elders who run those departments are also not professional and if their life depended on it, couldn't see a wrinkle in a robe that someone might think has a monster head in it. You have unprofessionals guiding unprofessionals. That is why you have people thinking they are drawing and painting imaginary things in the watchtower art. If you think you see a dog's head in the side of Jesus so you can rant and rave about homosexuality, knock your self out. It's stupid and completely unfounded, but that's just a professional opinion.
If you think about it, it's pretty stupid for a religious organization to try and purposely slip negative images in their art. I know if any person in the art department did something like that on purpose they would loose their brass key to the magic kingdom and be sent back to reality land. Besides, from what I saw, those people are afraid of their own shadow and wouldn't think of, or be clever enough, to slip in something they weren't supposed to. One guy (who was one of the two decent artist in the group) use to paint himself into some of the large scenes, but since they use other Bethel slaves as models for their art, nobody had a problem with it.
Nice try, but you don't have a clue what you are talking about on this one.
Have a nice day.
Dave
Tyln,
I do beleive that at a conscious level true no body is doing this but at a sub or unconscious level it can happen plus to the tendency of the human psyche to project paterns that are things inside oneself to the outside world its how we view are world it is all projections caused in part by stimulation of the 5 senses.
