"My sheep hear my voice." (page 5)

EndofMysteries

and let me correct what I said a second ago, not "I", but the spirit of truth would be able to tell if it's true or not. Hard to explain but you'll understand when you get to that point.

i have read several of you're posts and dont think you are stupid. so do you credit yourself or an invisible friend for being intelligent? also do you think it is demeaning to refer to youself or others as followers (sheep) instead of being an obvious leader? peace, and try taking a little credit for your brain.

NewChapter

You can be taught the basics and everything, but each person has the ability to get the holy spirit.

What do they have to do to receive this holy spirit? What do they have to do to sort out the scriptures? What DECISION do they have to make before they are given the tools to make that decision? And why should they take your word, or your interpetation for it? How do they test what you have said? The scriptures are a mess and written by men, so even if that is your test, you are telling them to simply follow the men that wrote it----UNLESS they make a decision without getting their answers first and go for holy spirit. In which case, they would base that decision simply on the word of others---with the proof being withheld until they fall in line. That's manipulative.

NewChapter

Hard to explain but you'll understand when you get to that point.

And to get the point, one must exert a certain measure of faith without understanding. By then, the decision is already made and unlikely to be unmade. Circular.

tec

Man, i am never going to bed tonight... ;)

And the "attributing it to Jesus" part is what bothers me. I freely admit I am imperfect - my thoughts, ideas, opinions, conclusions.....could all be WAY OFF. So I am always trying to make SURE of what I know. I seek ways to confirm my bleiefs.

I am no different.

With you, your inner voice IS YOUR ONLY CONFIRMATION. As long as your inner voice tells you that you are right, that's good enough for you! Dont' even deny it - I've seen it in 2 separate cases now.

Untrue. I MUST test everything against Christ, and that also means against love. Because I could 'hear' something else; something I simply WANT to hear; and conversely, I could reject something that i do NOT want to hear. I have to remain ever vigilante. And there have been times, as you know, where I have failed to express what i mean clearly. So that some take what i have said about one thing, and applied it to other things that i never ever meant for them to do. (and of course, yes, I am speaking about us)

That's the part of your "voice" or "knowing" or "understanding" or "reminders" that bothers me.....somehow YOU are never wrong. While the rest of teh world struggles with doing the right thing, not just for ourselves, but for others, as well....somehow you and the believers are never wrong in your thoughts, ideas and opinions.

Oh, I can be and am wrong. Christ is not wrong. But I am.

I'm not saying you are a bad person. I think you are a GOOD person. But is your voice, knowing, unsderstanding, reminders always right?

I'm not really a good person, Palm. I look to Him because I need Him to teach me to love; not to let personal anger or whatever blind me to someone who might be hurting, right in front of me.

I don't believe they are any more right than any other person who is trying to be a good person.

My own personal understanding, etc, etc, is not more right than any other person who is trying to be a good person (or even one who is not trying).

And there are MANY people trying to be good, Tec. Not just you, who is very articulate and charismatic.

Of COURSE there are. I would never think or suggest otherwise. Many people who are much more loving, much more 'good' (excuse the bad grammar) than me.

Yet, when you and Shelby cite him as your authority: "Jesus spoke to me and I am required to share......" You are NOT urging people to NOT take your word, when you cite him as your authority.

(I will only speak for me)

I have never been 'required' to share anything, that i can recall. And I am NOT urging people to take my word at all. I truly am not. It is more a matter of not wanting to take credit for something that was not mine; that i did not come up with on my own.

I can understand your dilemma. I will share my dilemma and how i reacted to it with you.

When I first read Aguest's posts (and i expect i would have felt the same with anyone who stated similar things, such as hearing in spirit), I was uncomfortable and even at times became angry. Because (I thought) it put me in a dilemma. If I do believe her, and she is false... then what is wrong with me that I am so easily fooled? If I do not believe her, and she is right and she is a servent of God, then what is wrong with me that i do not recognize Him?

It was all about her... about whether or not I believed her and who she said she 'heard'. I could have driven myself crazy, and given myself all sorts of distress.

So I decided to take that part out. (who she said she heard from, whether or not she was a servent) In fact, I pretty much took Aguest out of the equation altogether, and simply read the posts and message within. And I tested THOSE: the message. I tested them against Christ and in fact, I found that I understood most things she shared, and felt the same (I did not take as much literally as she did, but the meaning/lesson was the same so what did it matter?). If I did not understand or agree... then I simply set it aside; shelved it, so to speak. But in doing this... in testing the message rather than the messenger... I found that I could see more clearly, and i lost the stress and 'dilemma' that i had previously known. Because I knew/know that my life did not depend upon believing Aguest. I knew/know that it does depend upon Christ, and my faith in Him is built upon Him and no one else. No one else should do any differently. One should always listen to Him. Not though another person. Just Him. Even if that means you don't listen to Tec, or Shelby, or Paul, or the WTS, or the pope, or whomever/whatever. (I am not comparing myself to any of these)

(I did find that at the very least, the things she shared/s had a great way of getting one to consider a different viewpoint than the one that religions/traditions/etc have spoonfed us.)

What do you think those who DON'T hear a voice and attribute it to Jesus are supposed to think? For those ones who still believe in God but dont' hear a "voice", of course they are going to follow you (and Shelby).

I did not always hear as i do. It is in fact fairly new for me, and i am still learning from Him, and perhaps learning to be more careful in what/how i share. But i did not follow Shelby. Just as no one should follow me. I am no one.

This is NChappy's point - you are responsible for those who follow you. Because you claim Jesus Christ as your authority. So in my opinion:

And no one should follow anyone other than Christ. No one should follow me. Listen to Christ, over anyone (and that certainly includes me) else.

You better be DAMN sure you are correct before you "share" your "voices".

You are correct... but because I am human and imperfect, there is no one who should ever take my word for anything, and certainly no one who should follow ME.

And you better be DAMN sure that those you are leading are not mentally ill.

I am not leading anyone. And you're right... knowing something like that is not possible over the internet, and often not even in real life. Should a person never speak then? Never witness to Christ?

Palm, I know that some of my words to you many months ago led you to believe things that i never meant to imply, and in fact did not even occur to me as i spoke them. I am truly sorry that i did not see how you had taken my words as a rebuke against you. My words were applied to myself, and to myself alone.

Peace,

tammy

tec

Nobody should be leading anyone. EVERYBODY can get holy spirit. If you are going to look for somebody to explain everything and or find somebody who is trust worthy, etc, and just listen to them, you probably won't make it.

When things get bad and they are nowhere to be found, what are you going to do??????

If you start getting the spirit, you will know if what they say is true or not. If they guide you how to start that, then eventually you just share things.

Anytime one will be the 'leader', there are NO leaders but Christ. Those who are on the right path can help jumpstart you, but you need to eventually be able to eat food on your own, eat whole foot. Not be milk drinkers, meaning having it hand fed to you.

I think you said everything much better than i did. I am so glad to know others who understand this, and can explain.

Peace,

tammy

EndofMysteries

fakesmile - I am intelligent but when you are lead certain direction, or things get revealed that have no basis and everytime end up being correct. I really can't explain it well, but I know the difference between things I can figure out and accomplish with my own mind and things that must be given credit to the spirit of truth.

I think the references to sheep are actually sad and pity. It's so hard for humans to put faith and to get holy spirit, they are so drawn to having leaders they can see with their own eyes and to tell them. And history has shown, even ancient Israel, God didn't want them to have leaders but to draw close to him, but he gave in and gave them the leaders and judges, etc. But power corrupts. And the term sheep being lead to the slaughter, is to me like a pity and sad feeling, good people being abused and misled, if only they would be able to stop seeking a human who can be wrong, who can become corrupt, etc.

EndofMysteries

How to receive the holy spirit?

I've already listed these before......I'm just going to create a thread, how to get holy spirit. If any ask later I'll direct them to that. I'll have it posted in a few minutes.

tec

also do you think it is demeaning to refer to youself or others as followers (sheep) instead of being an obvious leader?

If this was a question for EoM, forgive me, but I would also like to answer.

I am a follower... of Christ. I do not think that is demeaning. I am no one's leader, and I would NOT want that responsibility, nor would i be able to live up to it. I am FAR FAR from perfect. I would rather serve... Christ and those he loves, and even then, I make mistakes that i am sorry for.

Peace,

tammy

fakesmile

mysteries, you are not a dummy either. would you want someone to take credit for your research? have some respect for yourself, man. dammit.

"My sheep hear my voice."

Share this