The Bible-- Full of Errors And Inconsistencies?

by Recovery 114 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Emery

  "Jesus Interrupted" by Bart Ehrman is a very great read on this very subject.

  This book is about how certain kinds of faith (particularly the faith in the Bible as the historical inerrant and inspired word of God) cannot be sustained in light of what historians know about the Bible. Ehrman begins by describing the difference between a vertical reading of the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) with a horizontal reading of them. A vertical reading is simply taking one Gospel at a time and reading through it. A horizontal reading, however, is where we place the gospels side by side and read them together to see the differences in the accounts. When we read the Gospels horizontally we find discrepancies, irresolvable differences, and even contradictions, not only in the small details, but also when it comes to major ideas presented by the authors.

  One that stands out to me most is the death of Judas Iscariot. In the gospel account of Matthew, it has Judas hanging himself, while in the book of Acts it states he fell over and his guts bursted open. So which is correct?

  There are significant differences between Matthew and Luke concerning various aspects of the birth of Jesus, as well as the genealogies found in their stories.

  Other discrepancies concern things like what the voice from heaven said at Jesus's baptism

  What Jesus did the day after his baptism

  Whether or not Jarius's daughter was already dead when her father approached Jesus

  Who is for and against Jesus

  Was Jesus crucified before or after Passover dinner

  What happened immediately after his birth

  There are many many others but that is for you to investigate. I hope this helps you Recovery, this isn't something that I have presented to deter you from your faith. You can still be a believer and know the discrepancies found in the text.
• 

  tootired2care

  The population growth of the Isrealites is another big tall tale. Below is a proof that show how the numbers reported in the bible are really implausable.

  ---------------------------

  Current population growth is 1.2 % per year, even being generous and using a 4% population growth rate (which is unrealistic), the number is not even close to the number reported. This does not even factor in the harsh conditions that shortened life during the bronze age.

  Ex 1:1-7

  Now these are the names of Israel’s sons who came into Egypt with Jacob; each man and his household came: 2 Reu′ben, Sim′e·on, Le′vi and Judah, 3 Is′sa·char, Zeb′u·lun and Benjamin, 4 Dan and Naph′ta·li, Gad and Ash′er. 5 And all the souls who issued out of Jacob’s upper thigh came to be seventy souls, but Joseph was already in Egypt. 6 Eventually Joseph died, and also all his brothers and all that generation. 7 And the sons of Israel became fruitful and began to swarm; and they kept on multiplying and growing mightier at a very extraordinary rate, so that the land got to be filled with them.

  Ex 12:37-40

  37 And the sons of Israel proceeded to depart from Ram′e·ses for Suc′coth, to the number of six hundred thousand able-bodied men on foot, besides little ones. 38 And a vast mixed company also went up with them, as well as flocks and herds, a very numerous stock of animals. 39 And they began to bake the flour dough that they had brought out from Egypt into round cakes, unfermented cakes, because it had not leavened, for they had been driven out of Egypt and had not been able to linger and too they had not prepared any provisions for themselves.

  40 And the dwelling of the sons of Israel, who had dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years. 41

  “Awake!” responds: Exodus 12:40 says: “The dwelling of the sons of Israel, who had dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.” Note that “the dwelling of the sons of Israel” is not limited to the time the Jews spent in Egypt; instead, it evidently covers the entire period that began with Abraham’s entry into the land of Canaan. The apostle Paul showed that this 430-year period began when the Abrahamic covenant was validated. (Galatians 3:16, 17) That occurred when Abraham entered Canaan in 1943 B.C.E. Bible chronology indicates that it was 215 years before the Jews moved to Egypt. That leaves 215 years for the Jews to have actually “dwelt in Egypt.”—See the article “Chronology,” in Volume 1 of “Insight on the Scriptures,” published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  http://www.metamorphosisalpha.com/ias/ population .php
• 

  John Kesler

  John's gospel records post-resurrection appearances of Jesus:

  John 20:19 19 When it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, ‘Peace be with you.’ John 20:26 26 A week later his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were shut, Jesus came and stood among them and said, ‘Peace be with you.’ John 21:1-14 After these things Jesus showed himself again to the disciples by the Sea of Tiberias; and he showed himself in this way. 2 Gathered there together were Simon Peter, Thomas called the Twin, Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two others of his disciples. 3 Simon Peter said to them, ‘I am going fishing.’ They said to him, ‘We will go with you.’ They went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing... 14 This was now the third time that Jesus appeared to the disciples after he was raised from the dead. Notice that John 21:14 explicitly says that the appearance by the Sea of Tiberias in Galilee is the third appearance of Jesus, and this one occured over a week after the resurrection, since we are told that the second one was a week after the first. But what about the appearance in Matthew 28, which is clearly intended by that author to be the first post-resurrection appearance of Jesus? Matthew 28:1-7a, 10, 16-17 After the sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2 And suddenly there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord, descending from heaven, came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow. 4 For fear of him the guards shook and became like dead men. 5 But the angel said to the women, ‘Do not be afraid; I know that you are looking for Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here; for he has been raised, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples, “He has been raised from the dead, and indeed he is going ahead of youto Galilee; there you will see him.” 10 Then Jesus said to them, ‘Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.’ 16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 When they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted.
• 

  Leolaia

  So what’s going on here? Is Jesus deaf, senile, or just not listening?
  ...or did the author jumble his paragraphs up?

  From Helmut Koester's classic work Ancient Christian Gospels (1990):

  Another aspect of the question of the integrity of the extant text of this Gospel concerns the order of its chapters and sections. Major disorder exists in two instances. The first concerns the sequence of chapters 4-7. At the end of chapter 4, Jesus is in Galilee, at the beginning of chapter 5 he goes to Jeruslem, chapter 6:1 says, "And after this Jesus went to the other side of the Sea of Galilee," and 7:1 reports that Jesus left Jerusalem and went about in Galilee, because the Jews were seeking to kill him. Moreover, John 7 continues the discussion of the theme of judgement which had been initiated in chapter 5. If the order were chapters 4, 6, 5, 7, all these difficulties would be removed.

  The second major disorder is apparent in John 14:30-31. At the conclusion of this first part of the farewell discourses Jesus says: "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me, but I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father. Rise, let us go hence." But it only in 18:1 that this command is followed by an appropriate action: "When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples across the Kidron valley where there was a garden." In spite of the clear "Rise, let us go hence" in John 14:31, chapters 15-17 continue the farewell discourses. It has been suggested that chapters 15-17 are a later interpolation. But in language, style, and content these three chapters belong with 13-14. It is clear, therefore, that they are not in the right place. Chapters 15-16 may have followed John 13:34-35 because 15:1-17 is a commentary on the commandment to love each other, and 13:36-38 seems a good continuation of 16:31. This leaves John 17, the farewell prayer of Jesus. No satisfactory solution has been found for the placement of this chapter. Bultmann suggests to place it after 13:31a, i.e. after the designation of Judas and before the statement "Now is the Son of Man glorified". That John 17 was added after the displacement of chapters 15-16 had already occurred, is also possible because chapter 17 is characterized by a theological interpretation of Jesus' departure that differs markedly from the farewell discourses in chapters 13-16; its orientation is more explicitly Gnostic. (p. 249)
• 

  Leolaia

  Of course. And I wish you better luck as you attempt to write and edit a work written over a thousand years, based on several streams of oral tradition, written and redacted by hundreds of people, relying on many different viewpoints and memories, in three languages, through dozens of wars and political crises, etc.
  Then, of course, you have to deal with criticism that the work fails to live up to a completely illegitimate and arbitrary standard

  Couldn't have said it better myself.
• 

  Finkelstein

  MATTHEW quotes Jesus (19:26), "with God all things are possible." Did Matthew or Jesus forget something? In the Book of Judges (1:19) God is not almighty, as he helped rid Judah of inhabitants of the mountain, but could not drive out those in the valley "because they had chariots of iron."

  This God of miracles apparently can move the largest body in the solar system, the Sun (or at least stop planet earth), in order to prolong daylight for Joshua's military revenge (or to move the sun's shadow 10 degrees backward [2 Kings 20:10-11 or Isaiah 38:7- 8]). Yet this same mover of heavens is cowed by mere horses & buggies made of iron?

  I wonder what would happen if God decided to attack a "modern" 1950 Buick?

  Exodus 31:I7: Like a man, God rests and can be "refreshed." Isaiah scorns such contemptible weakness.

  In 40:28 he insists God, creator of the "ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary." An infinite God cannot tire, nor needs to be - nor can be -- "refreshed."

  Again on astronomy, the spectre of "interpretation" rises, asking us: 'what are these "ends" of the earth' quoted above? A spherical planet has no "ends." Even a flat plate or the line of a circle is "endless." The phrase "ends of the earth" then, was not figurative: We know the common belief then was that earth, very literally, did have "ends." Nowhere in the Bible is the earth described as "spherical." (See also Rev. 7:1: "...four angels standing on the four corners of the earth" & Daniel 4:10-11. Daniel's words here make little sense for a spherical earth)
• 

  Leolaia

  I have never seen a satisfactory response to the discrepancy involving the length of the Israelites' Egyptian sojourn.

  My analysis in that thread, I think, gives a pretty good account of the variance of length between sources and the reasons for the variance.
• 

  Finkelstein

  Moses is the meekest man in the world (Num.l2:3), yet he orders the butchery of women and children in cold blood

  and the taking of female children, who are still virgins, to keep alive "for yourselves" under the permission of God (Num.31:17)
• 

  John Kesler

  Leolaia: My analysis in that thread, I think, gives a pretty good account of the variance of length between sources and the reasons for the variance.

  I agree. I meant a response that demonstrates that no discrepancy exists.
• 

  TD

  I noticed in the "Magic" thread many former JW's no longer adhere to the Bible as the unerring and accurate word of God. If you feel this way, can you please list any specific reasons/arguments as to why not. This thread isn't for debating purposes, but simply for listing. Having a collection of expositions all together in one thread will be a lot less time consuming. Thanks in advance to all who will take time to participate.

  Technically not a 'Former JW' here. (Unbelieving spouse of a JW)

  All the JW's I know seriously believe in an all vegetarian antediluvian ecology. This violates the 'Design equals a Designer' argument on many levels and makes JW's idealogical hypocrites. I suppose a more liberal minded JW could say that the restoration prophecies need not be taken literally.

  Closely allied to this is the flood story. Most higher mammals can't be reduced to that small a breeding group and survive. We've driven enough animals species to the brink of extinction and then attempted to bring them back via captive breeding programs to know this from direct observation and experience. Even when a species does survive a dramatic reduction in numbers, the resultant genetic bottle neck is detectable today.