Getting Back In (yes, its for family) What do I Say on 3rd Try?

by Meadow36 70 Replies latest jw friends

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    Meadow: I'm [an alcoholic], with four months now of abstinence, the whole thing began by asking for help with my problem.

    Let that be a lesson to any lurkers reading this post: THE ELDERS ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. DO NOT GO TO THEM SEEKING HELP. THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO GIVE HELP ON ANY SERIOUS MATTERS SUCH AS THIS!!!

    As undercover aptly put it: " If you were DFd for that, then it's no different than DFing someone who has cancer, because they have cancer."

    But this is what JW elders do, they "shoot their wounded."

    It's easier and more efficient. They're not trained our qualified to offer any real help anyways.

    Would seek the medical advice of a plumber or a janitor if you had cancer? No. That would be stupid.

    Hang in there Meadow, you can make it. AA has helped many people and it can help you. Just don't tell the elders on the JC you've been there. It's on a need to know basis and they don't need to know!

    00DAD

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Lots of good advice here.

    Meadow, I got the sense that the elders had their mind made up before you ever went in. You could have stood on your head and whistled dixie and the outcome would have been the same. They are power-tripping all over you.

    Your second post sounded like you are recovering your sense of self.

    Go in and put your best case forward.

    Realize they may try and twist you around like a pretzel again. It is not your failure if you can't read their minds.

    Does abusive dad have any standing at the hall?

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    I wrote: Say you've given it a lot of thought and you're like the Prodigal Son but are confused why they aren't like the father! - Luke 15:11 - 32

    To which DOC responded: I would not suggest making such a negative comparison. They would say your attitude about them (Jehovah's spirit directed servants) is not indicative of true repentance.

    First let me say that I completely understand DOC's response. It is possible, maybe even likely, that they would take you saying what I suggested as evidence of a lack of repentance (although it's cosmically ironic that quoting the Bible to an elder can be viewed as a sign of having a bad attitude, that is the reality among JW elders).

    Let me explain the reason I suggested this approach in the first place. You mentioned that this will be your third request for reinstatement and that they wanted you to think about which Bible character you are most like.

    This account clearly fits. I should have said that I am suggesting that you play it this way with the elders, but only if they refuse your request again for a third time:

    • I have done and am continuing to do everything I can to make things right and to prove my repentance to you. I read the same Bible you do. I read the same WT articles you do. You asked me to think of a Bible character that I most identify with and the account of the Prodigal Son just fit so perfectly. That is me.
    • What I don't understand is why, since--like him--I have "come to my senses", repented and come back just like the PS in the Bible account, you don't welcome me back like the Father? In the account it says, " While he was yet a long way off, his father caught sight of him and was moved with pity, and he ran and fell upon his neck and tenderly kissed him ".
    • Why aren't you welcoming me back? I have done everything I need to do and everything you have asked?

    It's important you act contrite, but confused by their refusal to grant your request for reinstatment.

    On possible problem for the elders and you could be the length of time since you were disfellowshipped. If you said how long ago you were DF'd I missed it. But I did notice you said you've been sober 4 months. Congratulations by the way!

    However, the elders may not feel this is long enough. The reality is that in many ways the elders are making it up as they go along. The WTBTS gives no clear guidelines or directions on the lenght of time that can/should pass before a person can be reinstated. It only says that the person should be repentant, have discontinued the wrong conduct and demonstrate "acts that befit repentance."

    Although they would deny it, many elders rely on their feelings and/or personal opinions when it comes to rendering judgement in a Judicial Hearing. They'd like to think Holy Spirit is directing them, but we know better.

    If they don't think that 4 months or whatever is long enough, it really doesn't matter if you've quit drinking and are genuinely repentant. They've got to make up something for you to do to bide time while the imaginary clock of justice that only exists in the collective mind of the Judicial Committee clicks off an undefined amount of time. Hence the " figure out which person from the bible you are most like " time-killing activity.

    If it hasn't been long enough for them, nothing you say or do can change their mind. You may however be able to nudge them back into line with a ploy such as I suggested if played well. You say you're a good actress. Get acting!

    You might also be able to get them to commit to something tangible. If they deny you again and you ask "What else do I need to do?" they'll probably reply "Keep doing what you're doing!"

    That's when you pull the Father role from the Prodigal Son account on them. You have done what you're supposed to do and you'll continue to keep doing it. Why aren't they fulfilling their role? If it's a matter of more time needs to pass, how long? What scripture is this base on? What WT article? There's nothing about "more time" in the Prodigal Son account.

    I don't think it'd be hard to act genuinely frustrated, confused and distraught by a third refusal of your request.

    In the end though, realize that these are NOT God's people. God has left the building. You are playing a game pretending to play by their rules. Their rules are arbitrary and capricious. The elders are a curious mixture of oft well-intentioned, yet seriously misguided men that are conflicted by their own control-freakery while at the same time being manipulated by WTBTS Policies, Rules and Regulations.

    Don't give up. Be courageous. Keep sober. Keep your self focused on what it is you want to accomplish and don't get side-tracked into unnecessary arguments or discussions with the elders. They are NOT your friends. Nevertheless, they are for the moment gatekeepers to your family.

    Best wishes,

    00DAD

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    Earlier I wrote: Tell them you're repentant and your relationship with Jehovah is repaired and now you want to rebuild your relationships with your family and anyone else that wants to.

    Based on some comments form others, I think it's important to add some context which I did not provide.

    The 4/15/12 Watchtower highlighted this as a strong motivation for some to come back to the organization. If you make this statement, be sure to quote/reference that article:

    After he was reinstated, he said that he always missed the association with his family, ... the burning desire to be with them became one motivating factor in his restoring his relationship with Jehovah. - The Watchtower, April 15, 2012, p. 12, para. 17 - Emphasis added

    You obviously, as I stated in my original comment, have to emphasize and make clear that "your relationship with Jehovah has already been repaired" at least as much as possible as a DF'd person, but now "you want to rebuild your relationships with your family and anyone else [in the congregation] that wants to" as per the "experience" in the 4/15 WT.

    Best wishes,

    00DAD

  • Magwitch
    Magwitch

    Meadow - My heart goes out to you! Congratulations on 4 months of being sober. I have had my struggles with alcohol, I know what a terrible battle this is, as do others on this forum. 4 months is a huge accomplishment.

    Keep the AA thing under your hat when you are around your committee or other witnesses in the future. The society takes a very dim view of AA.

    Matthew 21 has the parable of the son that told his father he would, but did not and the 2nd son that told his father he would not but did. I love this parable! I would use it in your meeting. With a tear in your eye let them know that you feel you let Jehovah down because at your baptism you promised Jehovah you would, but unfortunatly you failed and now feel like the son who told his father he would, but then did not.

    Here is to hoping 3rd time is a charm! Hopefully you can get back in and help get your kids OUT!

  • Jim_TX
    Jim_TX
    Magwitch said - " Keep the AA thing under your hat when you are around your committee or other witnesses in the future. The society takes a very dim view of AA."

    I don't think that this can be overstated, or emphasized enough!

    If they ask you how you have been able to stop drinking, or quit being an alcoholic, LIE! Tell them that with lots of prayer and a humble attitude () that you have been able to overcome the alcolholism.

    Again... DO NOT tell them that you have sought professional outside help for this.

    LIE

    LIE

    LIE

    ...and then LIE some more... oh, but be humble about it.

    Regards,

    Jim TX

  • andys
    andys

    I know this probably isn't the answer you are looking for, for one thing I am never going back to the JW's, what I do instead is I do everything that the Watchtower forbids, I celebrate all the holidays, on my facebook page I have an American Flag as my cover photo and also as my likes I like every single holdiay on my facebook page, also I have my own apostate website: http://www.exjwhelp.com

    The reason I do this is everything I have missed out on I want to do, also I want all immideate family to start thinking, if they all see that I have no fear of celebrating holidays, have an American Flag on my facebook page and run an apostate website they will all start to wonder and I hope it gets them all to thinking, in a way I am working very hard to make them think and I always have hopes that someone in the immediate family wakes up to what they are in, also something else you have to think of is what if you go back but then later on one of your other family members wakes up and discovers the truth about the truth and leaves the borg, I would rather in the long run show that I am taking a stand against something that I know is wrong.

  • mamochan13
    mamochan13

    Some excellent advice here. I concur with the advice about AA - do not tell the elders about it. They view AA as if it were a false religion. But don't give up on getting help from your AA sponsor. I know you probably feel like you are "bringing reproach" when you tell your sponsor what the elders are doing to you, and it's horrible to be put in the position where you feel like you must defend them. I felt that way at first until I finally accepted that what the elders were doing WAS wrong and indefensible.

    A hotel manager friend asked me if JWs had a reputation for being heavy drinkers, since all the hotels in the town he worked used to increase their liquor order during convention week. If they DFd you because you went to them for help with alcohol, that's the ultimate hypocrisy.

    Keep up the good work, though, and don't be afraid to get all the "wordly" help you can find. Try other options besides AA, too. It's important to get at the root cause of drinking. Regardless of what happens at your meeting, don't give up trying to straighten your life out.

    Continue to be strong and don't give up. They are just three men following made-up rules. If they refuse your request, politely ask what you can do to improve your chances next month. And then ask again next month.

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    mamochan13: Continue to be strong and don't give up. They are just three men following made-up rules. If they refuse your request, politely ask what you can do to improve your chances next month. And then ask again next month.

    In a nutshell, that's it. Everything else is just tactics and strategy.

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    ‘The Elders shoot their wounded’.

    And when they come back to life they shoot them again!

    This incident took place about 6 months ago in our congregation. A member had been df’d for something similar as Meadow36. This person’s issues were truly more medical related than social related as she also had a slight mental disorder. Bottom line, the Elders got tired after a couple attempts to ‘help’ her and so decided d’fing would wake her up. She had been df’d for about 11/2 years. She had made repeated attempts to get reinstated that failed. She finally decided that suicide was the answer & attempted to take her own life but failed, thanks to her children’s intervention who are not JWs.

    The day finally came when her reinstatement was announced. The congregation was so pleasantly surprised and overjoyed that the majority broke out in applause. The killjoy a’hole Elder making the reinstatement announcement reminded the congregation of the ‘WT rule’ that no clapping or applause was allowed when reinstatement announcements are made. This Elder did not have to say that! But such is the life of humiliation that df’d ones have to cope with even when they are welcomed back.

    Good luck to you Meadow36.

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